Thursday Open Thread
The big compromise on the Stimulus package happened on Wednesday. I think the final package is 789 Billion so some +100 billion in un-necessary spending has been chopped out.Â
The Solis nomination cleared the Labor/Health/Education committee as Ted Kennedy & his buds took her at her word. Yes they were unaware of tax liens at their business. She may be confirmed this week.Â
Since we are expierencing some hard times right now it might be a good time to open up ANWR and coastal areas for exploration and drilling. These actions would put thousands of people to work, bring in billions in royalties to the federal/state governments and would lessen our dependence on foreign oil. Â
As Dan Rather said a couple of times “Courage”. That’s what we need right now in DC.
 Oh just an update or two on the Israeli elections. The last of the ballots are being counted and they usually military and overseas ballots. Plus there are some strange rules about the allocation of excess votes to other parties. Right now it appears that the conservative parties have 65 seats in Knesset. If I have to guess Likud will be able to cobble together a majority and put Bibi in as PM.
1
So much for Mark Warner taking his indedpendence to Washington. this is all we heard during his Campaign against Jim Gilmore. Wonder if the Republicans that voted for him are regretting it yet?
Obama administration officials off the record leaking their reservations about a “right wing coalition government” in Israel getting in the way of middle east peace blah, blah.
What a surprise.
Dear Leader has spoken, “No Bibi”. His wishes are the worlds commands.
(hey guys, have I done enough to stay out of Gitmo in 2010?)
I heard Congressman Culberson (Houston area congressman) on a local talk show this morning. He says the stimulus bill is still being written behind closed door and will not be released until late morning. No Republican has any idea what is in it – although we can just imagine.
The vote is scheduled for this afternoon and that members will be voting blind on it. Of course, that has been the Democrat’s plan all along.
This is a disgrace. God help us.
MD, you and I may be cellmates. Let’s see which one of us they break first.
Phil,
Arlen Specter did not even read the friggin thing before voting for cloture.
Oh, ah but that is OK because Dear Leader wishes it to be so.
I’ll break if forced to stare at Helen Thomas for more than 15 seconds.
About Henrietta Hughes who is so grateful for her new home from the kind Republican:
I find all of this hard to believe. It just fits too neatly into the Obama talking points. First we see the poor homeless woman who needs the help that the stimulus and Democrats want to give. Then we see the Republican woman so moved by the woman’s dilemma that she gives her a home. This then should convince the reluctant Republicans about the error of their ways and they should then support the Democrats in their give away programs just like the kind hearted Republican woman did. Give me a break!! This is just the most incredible coincidence ever or it is an orchestrated event.
MD,
Helen Thomas? I’d rather be water boarded.
8… I know you guys are joking (sort of) about being incarcerated for not going along with this guy, but it may not really be that far-fetched. All that is needed is a slight expansion of hate-crimes legislation, and boom, most conservatives are instantly criminals. The jails that they would build to house us would stimulate the construction business and reduce unemployment. Whatever the charges, they would be certain to make it a felony so that if we ever get out, we would never be able to vote again thereby assuring perpetual DEM control.
How many Blue Dogs vote against it?
Perpetual Democratic control is being engineered as we speak.
billions of taxpayer dollars for ACORN in the new bill
This will be used by ACORN to register millions of Latino voters once dear leader and Democrats pass amnesty legislation for illegals.
Expand the size of the House of Representatives to add a black district in Washington DC. (unconstitutional BTW)
Have the census numbers reported directly to the White House for the first time in history – the census which determines house apportionment will be based on.
Card Check – do away with the secret ballot thus pressuring more unionization.
fairness doctrine – Democrats will have a majority on the FCC in June and will impose a version of it on the radio airways without having to resort to legislation. Purpose? to shut down the one megaphone available to conservatives.
What did I miss?
Increase the size of government thereby increasing the number of voters dependent on government.
Pack the courts with lefties thus giving them control of the judicial branch as well. Look out 2nd amendment.
#12, none in senate…11 or 12 in the House
#11 I don’t know about everyone else, Darrell, but I was and am stone-cold serious about the real possibility that I will be sent to Gitmo by our Dear Leader.
He very clearly has Juan Peron/Chavez disease and is very quietly setting things up for permanent one-party authoritarian rule….all of which would have been perfectly predictable if anyone actually botherered to scratch beneath the surface and examine what he wrote and stood for in college, as a junior legistlator in Ill (and a card carrying member of the openly socialistic New Democratic Party), and his own interviews on NPR.
I don’t know about everyone else, but this isn’t a joke.
-Polaris
Our stock market is in freefall again and:
World stocks sag on concerns about Obama plans
Feb 12, 6:59 AM (ET)
By PAN PYLAS
LONDON (AP) – World stock markets fell Thursday amid pessimism about the Obama administration’s plans to fix the U.S. banking system and restore the overall health of the world’s largest economy.
Oh come on Phil. There were liberals in 2004 crying about the permanent majority that republicans were going to have.
Fairness doctrine…never going to happen. I think that’s mainly something the hosts latched onto to use during slow news days.
Unions are already dead. Have been for decades. Not many industries lend themselves to unionization these days because people change jobs and careers so often, every 5-7 years or so. Unions need loyalty first and foremost and they aren’t going to get it.
The first vacancies on the court are going to be Ginsburg and Stevens. Replacing liberals with liberals doesn’t mean anything. I think the oldest conservative is Scalia and he’s in his 70’s? A relatively young man.
As for increasing size of government, well… that was happening under Bush, it’s continuing under Obama.
I don’t know about everyone else, but this isn’t a joke.
-Polaris
Comment by Polaris — 2/12/2009
Agree 100%.
I’m trying on a daily basis, to convince people that this is not your typical “we lost the election and the Dems won” situation.
We tried warning people this guy IS a radical, not just a liberal.
Now, we will suffer as a nation.
And sadly, even if the GOP regains the House in 2010, they won’t reverse anything of significance.
The Senate is lost for a generation and quite frankly, I’m convinced the damage is irreversible anyway.
The answer is the Republic of TX, or something similar.
I would leave my good job in a heartbeat.
I agree with Polaris. This is really no joke. Just open your eyes and look at what is going on. HD is right. We need to mobilize and make a ton of noise before it is too late.
Oh come on Phil. There were liberals in 2004 crying about the permanent majority that republicans were going to have.
AATX
You are one of those naive people who doesn’t understand what is going on, even while it’s happening.
You helped elect a radical, you will either be pleased or suffer the consequences.
The Census
The Fairness Doctrine
Regulated Healthcare
This is just the beginning.
There will be a huge movement to repeal the 22nd amendment.
Sorry if I was not clear, I was trying to emphasize that it was NOT a joke, just the Gitmo part of it…the jails to house us would be here, not in Cuba, because their construction here would be Obama’s way to reduce unemployment.
AITX,
I’ll respond to your above post bit by bit but I’ll prelude with this alarming fact. Obama got elected into office virtually unvetted and there are alarming radical tendencies in his background. This isn’t your run of the mill leftist Dem. Obama is a Marxist. His own interviews on NPR and his own writings in college (and chummy associations with the likes of Odinga of Kenya) prove it.
Oh come on Phil. There were liberals in 2004 crying about the permanent majority that republicans were going to have.
There were a few and the GOP overreached. However, Bush has played by the rules. Don’t bother to deny it; he has. Given the overwhelming popularity the GOP enjoys in the military (even Bush) both in the Officer Corps and rank and file, President Bush did NOT have to reliquish power. He did because he respects the constitution. Obama is on record saying that he does NOT respect the constitution. Big difference.
Fairness doctrine…never going to happen. I think that’s mainly something the hosts latched onto to use during slow news days.
That’s what you think. Rangel (for one) is on record in favor of the “fairness” doctrine and Obama of late has regarded Rush and other talkshow hosts as public enemy number one. Since Obama can impose the fairness doctrine with a stroke of a pen once the FCC chairs get rotated (this summer) I fully expect it to happen…and anyone that doesn’t hasn’t been paying attention.
Unions are already dead. Have been for decades. Not many industries lend themselves to unionization these days because people change jobs and careers so often, every 5-7 years or so. Unions need loyalty first and foremost and they aren’t going to get it.
Which is why Obama is going to impose Card Checks. With Card checks unions can be imposed whether the businesses want them or not (especially if the alternative is not getting federal help…expect that too).
The first vacancies on the court are going to be Ginsburg and Stevens. Replacing liberals with liberals doesn’t mean anything. I think the oldest conservative is Scalia and he’s in his 70’s? A relatively young man.
There is nothing in the constutition that says there have to be 9 SCOTUS justicies. A simple majority bill which Obama can ram through on a party-line vote can pack the court for decades. FDR tried it. I expect Obama to suceed.
As for increasing size of government, well… that was happening under Bush, it’s continuing under Obama.
Next to Obama, Bush is looking like a Piker when it comes to government bloat and I never thought I’d say that.
-Polaris
Obama is actually turning out to be all the fearful things that we preached for all of 2008 up to the election. He might even be worse than what we warned.
Pat Caddell, Democrat and McGovern and Carter pollster said yesterday the moving of the census into the domain of the White House is the most blatant political power grab he’s ever seen – that in no way can it be excused. Defend that one Aaron or explain to me the reasons for it. I’d love to hear them.
Increasing size of government? No, it’s accelerating under Obama and you know it – two fold.
The fairness doctrine will be implemented under the guise of “localization” and it will be done by the new majority on the FCC in June.
What are billions doing in an economic stimulus bill Aaron.
The unions are dead – card check is no more than an effort to revive them.
Think mids – if we are all not locked up by then.
Why is the stimulus bill still embargoed and why do they have to vote on it this afternoon with no debate and without having a chance to read it?
It’s rhetorical. The answer is obvious.
Let me be the first to say while I thought Obama was a radical at heart, I never, ever thought that it would show within the first 3 weeks of his Presidency in such a dramatic fashion.
Our very liberties (freedom of speech, assembly, etc..) and freedoms are at risk. Let’s not forget that it was PROVEN that Obama was a card carrying member of the NDS party (socialist) in Illinios. We are in big, big trouble. Our best hope is to make it to the mid-term elections (a big if) and turn the House while decreasing the Dems majority in the Senate.
Frankly, Obama’s power grab has been so extensive and dramatic (and not covered by the msm or even Fox) that I doubt that elections will truly be “free” by 10. Oh, the appearance of free elections will be prominent but with Obama capturing the Census and with ACORN given carte blance to do whatever they wish, combined with the Fairness Doctrine stiffling any dissent, the GOP may be dead in the water before the elections begin.
Obama is a prototypical false prophet.
re 24
“FDR tried it. I expect Obama to suceed.”
FDR failed when he had large majorities from his own party in congress…much larger than today. It’s unlikely any court packing scheme would work.
Like I said before…unions only succeed in occupations where people do similar work and the workers are very cohesive. High turnover occupations are very hard to unionize. I’ve studied labor history and unions almost always fall apart, sometimes due to efforts of the management, but more often because of internal discord.
Just because Rangel likes the idea of the fairness doctrine does not mean it will happen. Even if it did, last I checked Hannity and Colmes was a popular show. Hannity already covers himself on his radio show by taking liberal (usually idiot) callers. Limbaugh would probably have the tougher time since his show is more about him. It might even make the medium more popular because people like conflict.
Watch the push for repeal of the 22nd Amendment.
I’m not kidding folks.
AATX,
Your defense is pretty weak which makes me suspect that you know our points are valid. Freedom of speech only applies to liberals, not conservatives. We have no rights. That is crystal clear. Oh, and it is not just Rangel making noise about the Fairness Doctrine. Stabenow, Harkin, Pelosi and numerous other Dems have also gone on record to support the suppression of free speech. Why do you think Obama has made Limbaugh such a big issue instead of ignoring him the way Bush ignored Olbermann? That is because Obama intends to shut down Limbaugh.
Obama is not a Socialist. He is a Marxist.
#30
FDR did not have the monolithic congressional support that Obama has AND FDR waited for two years to pack the court because FDR didn’t think SCOTUS would dismantle key parts of the New Deal and found out differntly.
Obama won’t make that mistake.
Can you really explain Obama’s actions any other way than a naked power grab. Almost EVERYONE that’s not a democrat is expecting the Fairness doctrine or something very much like it to be instituted and that is completely in Obama’s control and Obama has made if perfectly clear he wants to muzzle both Hannity and Rush….and he will.
How else to explain the Census power grab?
PAY ATTENTION AITX! One-Party Chavez style rule is closer than you think! Obama’s *own* words betray him.
-Polaris
In the 1930s the Democrats were split between the old southern/confederate “Blue Dog” wing and the socialist wing. FDR could not get the Blue Dogs on board his court packing scheme.
Today’s Dem party is far more monolithic.
-Polaris
Polaris,
AATX will defend Obama right up until the very day that this site is shut down for being unpatriotic.
#35 Yep. It’s 1933 Germany all over again.
-Polaris
Great Aaron. Let’s get rid of Rush then (who just happens to have by far the biggest audiance). He obviously needs something to help his ratings, eh Aaron. Government should mandate the restrucuring of his show? How will that work anyway? Government will decide what constitutes bias?
Chilling.
The conservatives will truly be “underground” within months.
Everything Obama said in the primaries he meant.
I’m scared to death.
DOW
7793.14
-146.39
-1.84%
From what I read on liberal blogs, the census decision came partly because Obama put Gregg in charge of Commerce and there were questions about how he’d handle the census.
The census has been under republican control before, were you complaining then? There’s usually a problem with minorities being undercounted, particularly hispanics. Perhaps they want to keep closer track of that. Since the commerce dept usually oversees the census, I don’t see white house oversight that much of a difference. Either way, the president is still the boss.
But in the end, the census issue boils down to whoever wins the election prior. If you wanted to control it, you should have won the election.
#34
Dead on. My thesis in grad school was over the old conservative coalition in congress beginning in the 1930s.
160 to 180 Republicans would vote with 50 to 60 southern conservative Democrats. Now, you have 178 Republicans voting with Mississippi congressman Taylor.
One Party monolithic liberal rule is here with a socialist in the White House.
Where is my honey bee insurance?
Aaron,
Thanks for your census explanation. I’m sure that makes Pat Caddell feel much better. Of course he’s nothing but a Republican hack.
Fact remains, as Caddell spelled out yesterday, the census has NEVER been moved into the domain of the White House – EVER!
From what I read on liberal blogs…
Comment by Aaron_in_tx — 2/12/2009 @ 10:54 am
That was your first mistake.
Take note on how AATX will not address the issue of freedom of speech. That is telling. Oh and by the way, Bush never controlled the Census. Just sayin.
#29–Obama is a prototypical false prophet.
Comment by MDefl — 2/12/2009 @ 10:38 am
———-
Its interesting that you put it this way. There were (and are) many in the conservative community of faith saying that Obama is the ultimate false prophet, the “anti-christ” as described in the book of Revelation. I will make no such claim, however, it is interesting to see in the Bible how it describes the anti-christ. He is predicted to be a world leader that comes suddenly out of obscurity and has a huge following of people who follow him with blind loyalty. The Bible says that its a “strong delusion” that comes over people to follow the guy. There are a few people who do not succumb to this delusion and they are persecuted and many are killed. But in the end, the anti-christ achieves power over the world. He is also described as someone who had a mortal wound, but somehow overcame it and was healed. Not sure how that would fit Obama. But after seeing how so many people blindly followed the unvetted Obama, I can see how easily people would be deceived someday by an anti-christ who will rule the world.
It’s 10:00 AM. We’re getting closer to the afternoon vote on the stimulus bill.
Still, the bill has not been released by Democratic leaders so that it can be read.
What a farce.
Can at least one of our Senators filibuster this thing? Show a little guts. Maybe I am wrong – is a filibuster not allowed at this stage?
Caddell was in the White House under Carter and said no one in the Carter White House EVER considered interfering with the census.
And no Aaron, Bush didn’t control the census. No president has ever interfered – until now!
“According to what I read on liberal blogs” – Paleeeez.
Aaron,
It is simply mind boggling how wrong you are today and the fact that your defenses are amazingly weak proves to me that you really know the truth.
“Obama intends to shut down Limbaugh.”
Personally I don’t care about the fairness doctrine. Limbaugh et al do not convert anyone who isn’t looking to get converted. These people preach to the choir. As you say they’re exercising their freedom of speech.
I’m just saying Hannity and Colmes was Fox’s 2nd most popular show. People liked the back and forth. If the fairness doctrine passed then they’d have to get conservative voices on Maddow and Olberman too. In the end I think the whole thing is unnecessary and unlikely.
Wrong A&T once again. You really are on a roll today. The Fairness Doctrine is only targeting talk radio. Cable is not under the domain of the FCC – yet.
Please, don’t respond until you know the simple facts.
#52. Wow, you are completely wrong. The Fairness Doctrine has NOTHING to do with television.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090212/ap_on_re_us/octuplets
Anybody seen this? What in the World was this woman thinking?
I also have an idea that would circumvent the FCC’s Fairness Doctrine (which I am already assuming will be implemented) but I don’t want to give it away yet.
I’m not sure about a filibuster on a conference bill. I presume not as they expect a final vote tonight.
The idea is to get it adopted BEFORE this rotten piece of garbage is seen in the light of day.
Transpafency under Hugo Obama.
Brandon,
AATX’s ignorance is almost unreal today.
and the fairness doctrine has nothing to do with getting equal time on the same show, it rather has to do with forcing stations to have programming time equally given to each side with the fcc (govt) deciding when it is balanced. Stations would have to put on liberal shows that don’t sell (see Air america) and thereby lose half of their revenue. Many stations would simply fold or go to playing elevator music to avoid the trouble, and the potential of litigation if they don’t get the balance right.
Aaron attends the University of Texas at Austin. He only gets one side.
I was referring to 1970 and 1990, not 2000 or 1980 census.
Caddell was probably overreacting, like you guys are. From what I know about him, he’s a fox news contributor and tends to not say good things about democrats. In fact, all I can find from him is some youtube clips where he talks bad about Obama.
Fox News overreacting? Say it ain’t so!
#59, very accurate and concise explanation of how it works.
What do you guys think of the Patriot Act, by the way?
In my mind I have gathering some points.
1. Fairness doctrine
2. Check-card & Davis Bacon
3. Wall street bonuses (folks earning too much money)
4. Shutting sin city trips (Would Neveda vote for Obama now?)
5. Census (what does Gregg think of this?)
6. Plus look at Obama’s staged news conference. He had his 13 questioners all picked out. Plus he had Schutz, Huffpuff and Helen Thomas all on front row expecting to be picked to be questioners.
7. Daschle & Treasury guy Guesswait are okay on taxes because they are Obama guys.
Obama seems to be setting himself up as the final judge & jury of who does what, who goes where, who talks to him, who says what on radio and who does right or wrong.
I don’t see 1933. I see Nixon, Halderman & Ehrlichman. I guess the enemies list will be started in a few weeks.
Pat Caddell, Republican hack!
LMAO
If need be, conservative talk radio could go to satellite radio like Howard Stern.
It’s a mammoth industry, basically keeping AM radio on the map the last 20 years. I don’t see it going under despite what the government tries to do.
If the democrats are really worried about talk radio’s influence, they need to take a chill pill. At best, their effect on elections is minimal. I notice they try to magnify their contributions after the fact.
Every Dem, except 1 voted for the Patriot Act.
AITX,
The Whitehouse has NEVER controlled the census. There are good reasons for that (think seperation of powers).
Since the census controlls how congressional seats get apportioned, then WH control is the first step to one party rule.
You can not explain this one away. Have you even bothered digging up Obama’s past history AITX? I have and it’s not a pretty picture.
-Polaris
The first draft of the Stimulus bill has just been released.
1,434 pages.
Uh, read fast Republicans. The vote is this afternoon.
Bhahahahahahahahaha
Pol,
He is clearly on the defensive today. His points lack even the basics of common sense.
#66 AITX I was around when the so-called Fairness doctrine was repealed. Night and Day. If the fairness doctrine gets reinstituted it kills AM Talk Radio. Conservative Talk Radio is commercially viable. Liberal Talk Radio isn’t…..so by forcing a “fairness” doctrine the idea is the muzzle the one media outlet conservatives have…..and multiple Dems have said it’s coming.
I’d believe them especially given Obama’s open hostility to talk radio AND the fact it requires no congressional action to implement.
-Polaris
Polaris,
It’s coming. A vacancy comes open on the FCC Commission in June and that will give Obama his majority. They’ll do it administratitively with out a peep from the MSM.
Two words. HUGO CHAVEZ
“so-called Fairness doctrine was repealed.”
Yeah, it was in the mid-80’s ironically around the time you started to hear the “liberal media” meme.
#72 Oh I know it’s coming. Also expect a huge tax increase and tracking of ammunition (not guns but ammunition) to bypass the second amendment, and then watch out for the Civilian National Defense Force which as a purely job related program will “help” out our police.
AITX still doesn’t get it. The time to stop tyranny is in embryo and this country was asleep at the switch. I am increasingly concerned that we just voted our Democracy away this last November.
-Polaris
#73 AITX, the MSM has been overwhelmingly liberal since the Vietnam war. You are off by 15-20 years, but easy mistake.
-Polaris
Conservatives have multiple media outlets. Perhaps you should ask why the National Review or Washington Times don’t get better sales?
Probably because those publications require a little intelligence to comprehend, unlike Fox News which causes you to lose an IQ point or two every 10 minutes you watch.
Polaris, I pray you are right that the 2008 election result was in good bit due to conservatives not showing up.
I fear however that you underestimated the demographic trends as the major contributor.
That and Obama’s control and ever increasing control of the media along with his massive money advantage as well as his control of government institutons just is overwhelming.
I fear for our freedoms. I’m scared.
Here’s a dose of the stupidity of the stimulus bill and the “clamor” for its passage:
Remember Obama crowing yesterday how Caterpillar will re-hire laid off workers if the stimulus bill is passed. Here’s today’s LA Times story:
“Rehirings at Caterpillar Inc. hinge on stimulus bill’s passage, White House asserts
The company won’t say how many laid-off employees might return to work. The world’s biggest maker of earth-moving equipment recently announced it was cutting more than 20,000 jobs from its workforce….
By Christi Parsons and Peter Wallsten
February 12, 2009
Reporting from Washington — Even before the stimulus deal was complete in Congress, President Obama said Wednesday that evidence already showed his economic rescue plan would improve the lives of American workers.
The White House asserted three times Wednesday that Caterpillar Inc., which has laid off workers recently, would be able to rehire employees if Congress approved the stimulus bill.
But as the president prepared for a trip today to visit a Caterpillar plant in East Peoria, Ill., it was unclear whether the world’s biggest maker of earth-moving equipment could provide an example of the stimulus bill’s job-creating powers.
The Peoria, Ill.-based company would not say how many laid-off employees might return to work, or when. Nor would it say how many workers targeted for upcoming layoffs might keep their jobs.
Caterpillar also would not say whether the rehired employees would come from its U.S. workforce, which makes up about half of the firm’s 112,000 employees.”
Ha ha ha ha! Suckers! This is what happens when morons don’t have a clue how economic decisions are made.
Hi all
Can’t stay today, but wanted to post article on tax changes (with charts) of stimulus bill. I suspect many here will benefit.
The Big Winners In Stimulus Compromise: The Upper-Middle Class
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/11/the-big-winners-in-stimul_n_166192.html
kb
You heard from Nixon and others that particular news organizations were biased against them. In the 80’s is when it started to become the whole “media” and conservatives started playing the victim.
Yeah Aaron. Only us yahoos read and listen to that LONG list of conservative media outlets you cite.
So, it takes a higher order of intellegence to listen to Olbermann?
Just wow.
64-Agreed and we know what happened to all of them. That is why I am not concerned. I loved this site for the intelligent conversation. But to many sensible people here have jumped the shark when it comes to Obama.
The American people are educated and love freedom. The people of Argentina and Venezuela are not. And 33% of Americans are armed. And most of the guys in the military love their country and are not crazy about their CIC.
If you have jobs or businesses concentrate on them. Times of panic and uncertainty are times for opportunities.
#76 Compared to non-conservative publicans of the same ilk both the Washington Times and National Review actually do quite well…and there you go again with your assinine and arrogant sense of (false) intellectual superiority.
The FACT is as proven by multiple double blind studies by Groseclose of UCLA (and cosponsered by Harvard) and others, the MSM is overwhelming hard liberal and has been since Vietnam. That’s both TV and Print. The only place where conservatives have a decided edge is in AM Talk radio.
I notice you didn’t include Fox. I wonder why not (no I know why….Fox didn’t fit the example you were trying to make).
-Polaris
Aaron,
Your ignorance is coming through clearly today. I just read the thread again and it is funny how wrong you are on basic facts. I have been giving you more credit than you deserve.
“So, it takes a higher order of intellegence to listen to Olbermann?”
No, that guy is equally an idiot. Cable news rots your brain, I try not to watch it. It’s entertainment, and not much more informative than talk radio. I was commenting on the decline of actual thought-provoking news and commentary.
Knova,
There were people in Germany, circa 1935, that said the same thing as you.
KB,
You actually believe economic analysis from the huffington post?
Let me spell it out to you in vocabulary I hope you understand. This so-called “bill” does nothing but hand money to various groups for at least two years (it will take that long for the govt created jobs to appear…and that’s per Obama’s team’s own estimate). In the meantime, it will raise the federal deficit to unprecedented levels while doing NOTHING to increase the amount of banking and business activity (at least directly) [which means revenues will be way down].
What these idiot Keynsians don’t get is that even governments can’t create money out of nothing. That extra money in the bill has to come from somewhere and since it can’t come from the taxpayer, it means it has to be BORROWED by selling T-Bills to other countries…..but every other country in the world is at least as bad off as we are!
So who is going to buy our debt?
In the end? NOBODY
If Nobody buys our debt, then the govt prints money without the resources to back it.
Result: Hyperinflation.
It’s coming in a couple of years. Count on it.
BTW, that’s not just my analysis. That comes from the Wall Street Journal.
-Polaris
Oh wow, this is priceless. Not only are you guys comparing Obama to Chavez, you’re even invoking comparisons to Nazi Germany. Wow. Godwin’s Law, anyone?
Any predictions on when Obama will call for the need for more Lebensraum?
#88 The comparison is apt although I have traditionally compared Obama to Juan Person.
Can we say “Kult of Personality”?
Read Obama’s early history. Listen to his speeches when he was part of the NDS. Consider that he was bosum buddies with Odinga….and then compare to past demoguages. Now look at what he’s doing.
It’s not a pretty picture. If you aren’t scared then you haven’t been paying attention.
-Polaris
He is NOT a Na***. He is a Marxist. Open your eyes.
re 83,
Fox is TV. Different medium. I’ve read that Groseclose study. Didn’t say much. Basically it found that reporters cite liberal think tanks more than conservative ones.
You might also want to read the criticism of Groseclose’s article. Most problematic is that he didn’t have a variable for the quality of the thinktanks.
86-Germany after WWI was a basket case and everyone was poor. Very different from what we in the US have now. If you truly believe that Obama is going to gain dictatorial powers, tell me what are you going to do about it? In my estimation an Obama dictatorship has the same probability as a military coup unseating him. He will be gone no later than January 2017 in the normal, constitutional manner.
Polaris,
I think you would enjoy the following article. Sorry for the long post but I don’t have a link:
Understanding Obama: The Making of a Fuehrer By Ali Sina
I must confess I was not impressed by Sen. Barack Obama from the first time I saw him. At first I was excited to see a black candidate. He looked youthful, spoke well, appeared to be confident – a wholesome presidential package. I was put off soon, not just because of his shallowness but also because there was an air of haughtiness in his demeanor that was unsettling. His posture and his body language were louder than his empty words. Obama’s speeches are unlike any political speech we have heard in American history. Never a politician in this land had such a quasi “religious” impact on so many people. The fact that Obama is a total incognito with zero accomplishment, makes this inexplicable infatuation alarming. Obama is not an ordinary man. He is not a genius. In fact he is quite ignorant on most important subjects. Barack Obama is a narcissist. Dr. Sam Vaknin, the author of the Malignant Self Love, also believes, “Barack Obama appears to be a narcissist.”
Vaknin is a world authority on narcissism. He understands narcissism and describes the inner mind of a narcissist like no other person. When he talks about narcissism everyone listens. Vaknin says that Obama’s language, posture and demeanor, and the testimonies of his closest, dearest and nearest suggest that the Senator is either a narcissist or
he may have narcissistic personality disorder (NPD).
Narcissists project a grandiose but false image of themselves. Jim Jones, the charismatic leader of People’s Temple, the man who led over 900 of his followers to cheerfully commit mass suicide and even murder their own children was also a narcissist. David Koresh, Charles Manson, Joseph Koni, Shoko Asahara, Stalin, Saddam, Mao, Kim Jong Ill and Adolph Hitler are a few examples of narcissists of our time. All these men had a tremendous influence over their fanciers. They created a
personality cult around themselves and with their blazing speeches elevated their admirers’ souls, filled their hearts with enthusiasm and instilled in their minds a new zest for life. They gave them hope! They promised them the moon, but alas, invariably they brought them to their doom. When you are a victim of a cult of personality, you don’t know it until it is too late.
One determining factor in the development of NPD is childhood abuse. “Obama’s early life was decidedly chaotic and replete with traumatic and mentally bruising dislocations,” says Vaknin. “Mixed-race marriages were even less common then. His parents went through a divorce when he was an infant (two years old). Obama saw his father only once again, before he died in a car accident. Then, his mother re-married and Obama
had to relocate to Indonesia: a foreign land with a radically foreign culture, to be raised by a step-father. At the age of ten, he was whisked off to live with his maternal (white) grandparents. He saw his mother only intermittently in the following few years and then she vanished from his life in 1979. She died of cancer in 1995.”
One must never underestimate the manipulative genius of pathological narcissists. They project such an imposing personality that it overwhelms those around them. Charmed by the charisma of the narcissist, people become like clay in his hands. They cheerfully do his bidding and delight to be at his service. The narcissist shapes the world around himself and reduces others in his own inverted image. He creates a cult of personality. His admirers become his co-dependents.
Narcissists have no interest in things that do not help them to reach their personal objective. They are focused on one thing alone and that is power. All other issues are meaningless to them and they do not want to waste their precious time on trivialities. Anything that does not help them is beneath them and do not deserve their attention. If an
issue raised in the Senate does not help Obama in one way or another, he has no interest in it. The “present” vote is a safe vote. No one can criticize him if things go wrong. Why should he implicate himself in issues that may become controversial when they don’t help him personally? Those issues are unworthy by their very nature because they are not about him.
Obama’s election as the first black president of the Harvard Law Review led to a contract and advance to write a book about race relations. The University of Chicago Law School provided him with a fellowship and an office to work on his book. The book took him a lot longer than expected and at the end it devolved into…, guess what? His own autobiography! Instead of writing a scholarly paper focusing on race relations, for which, he had been paid, Obama could not resist writing about his most sublime self. He entitled the book Dreams from My Father.
Not surprisingly, Adolph Hitler also wrote his own autobiography when he was still nobody. So did Stalin. For a narcissist no subject is as important as his own self. Why would he waste his precious time and genius writing about insignificant things when he can write about such an august being as himself? Narcissists are often callous and even ruthless. As the norm, they lack conscience. This is evident from Obama’s lack of interest in his own brother who lives on only one dollar per month. A man who lives in luxury, who takes a private jet to vacation in Hawaii, and who has
raised nearly half a billion dollars for his campaign (something unprecedented in history) has no interest in the plight of his own brother. Why? Because, his brother cannot be used for his ascent to power. A narcissist cares for no one but himself.
This election is like no other in the history of America. The issues are insignificant compared to what is at stake. What can be more dangerous than having a man bereft of conscience, a serial liar, and one who cannot distinguish his fantasies from reality as the leader of the free world?
I hate to sound alarmist, but one must be a fool if one is not alarmed. Many politicians are narcissists. They pose no threat to others.. They are simply self serving and selfish. Obama evinces symptoms of pathological narcissism, which is different from the run-of-the-mill narcissism of a Richard Nixon or a Bill Clinton, for example. To him reality and fantasy are intertwined. This is a mental health issue, not
just a character flaw. Pathological narcissists are dangerous because they look normal and even intelligent. It is this disguise that makes them treacherous.
Today the Democrats have placed all their hopes in Obama. But this man could put an end to their party. The great majority of blacks have also decided to vote for Obama. Only a fool does not know that their support for him is racially driven.
Let us call a spade a spade. This is racism, pure and simple. The truth is that while everyone carries a misconceived collective guilt towards the blacks for wrongs done centuries ago by a bygone people to a bygone people, the blacks carry a collective rancor, enmity or vendetta towards non-blacks and to this day want to “stand up” to the white man.. They seem to be stuck in 19th century. The downside of this is that if Obama turns out to be the disaster I predict, he will cause widespread resentment among the whites. The blacks are unlikely to give up their support of their man. Cultic
mentality is pernicious and unrelenting. They will dig their heads deeper in the sand and blame Obama’s detractors of racism. This will cause a backlash among the whites. The white supremacists will take advantage of the discontent and they will receive widespread support. I predict that in less than four years, racial tensions will increase to levels never seen since the turbulent 1960s. Obama will set the clock back decades…America is the bastion of freedom. The peace of the world depends on the strength of America, and its weakness translates into the triumph of terrorism and victory of rogue nations. It is no wonder that Ahmadinejad, Hugo Chavez, the Castrists, the Hezbollah, the Hamas, the lawyers of the Guantanamo terrorists and virtually all sworn enemies of America are so thrilled by the prospect of their man in the
White House. America is on the verge of destruction. There is no insanity greater than electing a pathological narcissist as president.
#91 AITX,
Please. Groseclose is the only serious political scientist that’s even ATTEMPTED to find actual bias in a scientific manner which is a lot more than what I can say for his so called critics. I notice that none of them come up with a better way of measuring bias.
Riddle me this: If you were to take 100 MSM journalists and were to break them down by party and who they voted for, how would that compare to how the general public voted?
I think you know the answer. If you don’t think the MSM is overwhelmingly biased in favor of Obama right now and the Dems in general, then you sir, are without a clue.
-Polaris
“I am increasingly concerned that we just voted our Democracy away this last November.
-Polaris
Comment by Polaris — 2/12/2009 @ 11:44 am”
I also believe that many people in big cities voted in November in favor of being incinerated by nuclear blast–but at least their last vote was for hope and change. One of two isn’t bad I guess, hope won’t happen, but change, yes.
#92 That’s what leading opposition members of Argentina’s political class said when Juan Peron was first elected in the late 1930s. It’s why I use the Argentina example. Unlike German, Argentina at the time had a fairly strong middle class and a fairly robust economy (certainly for Latin American but even globally).
Juan Peron still seized one-party rule. The best way to stop it is to talk about it and get other people to recognize the danger. One-party authoritarians gain influence when the populace feels that such a thing isn’t possible.
-Polaris
#67:
That’s fine. But, I didn’t ask who voted for it. I asked what you folkls thought of it?
So far, no one has said.
Only hours before the House vote on the Stimulus. Everyone about finished reading it?
#98 What are the odds? The vote was deliberately scheduled so no one COULD get a detailed read and analysis before the vote was held.
-Polaris
Polaris: you yourself compared our present day situation with Germany 1933. Others have gone further.
This is just so retarded, it’s not even funny.
I’d advise The next person to use a reductio ad Hitlerum, to log off, go to the local library, and pick up a history text book on Nazi Germany.
(oh, and an interesting and ironic observation…the far left was frequently comparing Bush/Cheney to the Nazi administration, and fearing their freedoms were at stake. Very interesting, yet retarded, role reversal here. People have such short memories.)
Tim,
I think in a couple of areas, the legislation overreached. I am shocked that virtually no libs in Congress voted against it. What is going on now makes the Patriot Act look like a tea party.
re 94
There are actual journals of media studies, and they tore apart that article. Groseclose & Milyo didn’t even cite the work done in multiple communications journals on the issue of media bias.
Their rankings of “bias” were strange. RAND got a higher “liberal” score than the ACLU. There were other irregularities of that sort.
They studied a small sample of the “media.”
Plus the 2 authors were former members of conservative think tanks. That colors their study right there.
The very notion that “bias” can be measured by measuring think tank citations isn’t exactly a strong foundation for an argument.
96-There is just no getting through to you. This used to be fun. Now it is simply silly.
#100 Marcus,
It’s not retarded. I wish it were. Obama is a Marxist. Have you read Dreams of my Father? I suggest you do. Obama tells us exactly what he wants to do with this country and it’s not pretty reading.
-Polaris
Thank you, Mike. Fair enough.
#102 No one has come up with a better system, AITX.
NO ONE.
Are you going to tell me that the MSM isn’t in the tank for Obama and doesn’t have a liberal bias. Really?
-Polaris
I dunno whether Obama will turnout to be the American Peron or Chavez. But I do find the cult of personality aspects of his phenomenon disturbing. I believe that the democratic, self-government tradition is very strong. Deeply embedded in the soul of large swaths of the American population. Therefore, before Obama can turn this country into another Argentina or Venezuela, we will spit apart. The “red states” will not go along and secede.
Obama had the perfect storm:
incredibly unpopular incumbent
massive economic meltdown
incredidiblely one sided media shilling for him every day that continues as we speak.
Overwhelming money advantage
Smooth as glass speech
unprecedented demographic tipping point of the electorate.
4 years and one sided congressional majorities to expand government and create more dependents
millions of untapped Hispanic voters there for the taking once amnesty is achieved
institutional control levers of government – see Census Dept “adjustment”
Cult glorification of leader and family – see weekly covers of Vogue and People Magazine
Means thru FCC to quietly put a stake thru the heart of chief outlet through the opposition.
The ingredients are all there. I keep thinking Chavez.
#103 Who’s being funny? I am serious as a heart attack. Obama has the makings of a Marxist dictator. I hope you don’t find out too late.
AITX,
Did you actually read the study. The authors had no input into how the news organizations were ranked. The study was comnpletely double-blind with equal numbers of liberal and conservatives raters. Were the studies (more than one) perfect? No. No study ever is.
However, no one has come up with a better system…and the conclusion is one that fits the general obvervation. The MSM is badly slanted to the liberal side…and in the case of Obama, has become effectively Obama’s mouthpiece.
-Polaris
104: Polaris: Your post shows EXACTLY why your (and others) comparison to Nazi Germany is retarded. What does Marxism have to do with Nazi Germany?
You do know Nazis hated Marxists with a passion, right? (judging by your post, you don’t. Nor do many others here. Or Glenn Beck for that matter)
Without the Perfect Storm, a Marxist like Obama wouldn’t have a chance.
Surely everyone has finished reading the bill by now. No? Damn, must be retarded.
I read #93. Chilling
What does “in the tank” mean? To me, they criticize Obama a lot. If they were really in the tank, I would think they just wouldn’t have reported the Daschle tax issue, for example.
I think that is the problem with media bias arguments. If you’re making it, you probably have a bias yourself. Thus, all you prove is that your particular view is not reiterated in some outlets.
Dumbass. He wasn’t using the analogy of Hitler to illustrate ideology. He was using it to illustrate one man control.
#110 The comparison I have used most of the time (indeed almost ALL of the time) has been Argentina. As for Nazis and Communists, sure they hated each other…..but when seizing control, dictators of either stripe have used almost the same tools.
To be sure Hitler was no Marxists (although Mussolini in his youth was), but Chavez certainly is.
There are two aspects of Obama that should worry you:
1. The man IS a Marxist who has (by his own self-admission) zero respect for the constitutution. That means he has the desire to seize one party rule.
2. He has the personality and the means to accomplish the first and is using cicumstances similiar to others in history to do just that.
-Polaris
109-I think he has the makings of a 1 four year term President who will essentially be a lame duck after the 2010 elections.
115. Even in THIS VERY THREAD you compared it to Germany 1933. So don’t BS me here. I’m NOT talking about Chavez, I am talking about YOU AND OTHERS comparing Obama and democrats to HITLER and NAZIS.
#113 The Washington Post by it’s own admission admitted that they heavily slanted there election coverage in favor of Obama. That’s not me saying that: It’s the editorial board of the WaPo that said it. In addition the NYTimes Ombudsman has said the same thing.
You can count stories favorable and unfavorable as a first indicator of bias.
In addition, has there been any MSM coverage of Obama when he was an NDS card carrying member of the Ill legistlature? No. Could Hillary Clinton have gotten away with that. No again. Again it’s not me that’s saying that the MSM is in the tank for Obama. The CLINTONS (hardly republicans) have said the same.
I could go on, but it’s not nearly has hard to recognize media bias as you want to believe. Putting an exact quanitification on it is more difficult, but at least SOMEONE (Groseclose) at least tried which is more than I can say for you and your ilk.
-Polaris
If you really want to know about an issue, you would want to read many outlets, including foriegn, to get the most complete picture. That’s why I read the national review and wall street journal and come on here.
Jim Lehrer did an interview which I thought was very good. They asked him about bias and he said “If I asked a question and immediately said, ‘Liar!’ where would that get me?”
There’s bias in everything. You deal with it in historical documents all the time. It’s up to the individual to wade through it to come as close as possible to the truth.
#117 I suggest you read what I posted again. I made the comparison to 1933 with respect to how a demogogue got into power when no one believed it was possible. At no time did I directly compare Obama to Hitler. There are similarities but only surface ones.
Juan Person or Huego Chevez are much better analogies.
-Polaris
Marcus,
That was me and I was responding to just one aspect of the debate. Get your facts straight. I have contended and have proof that Obama is a Marxist. I never thought he would exhibit those tendencies so quickly. I actually was hoping he would govern from the left/center. It is clear now that the American people have elected a radical leftist who will stop at nothing to gain complete control of the country and stifle all dissent.
#120 I mean Juan Peron is a much better analogy of course.
#109 I disagree. There is an unspoken assumption that makes our country work. That assumption is this: The loser is willing to play by the rules Obama’s own words indicate to me as well as his demeanor since elected that he is not willing to play by the rules. He’ll use whatever means is necessary to stay in power.
-Polaris
I would also add Castro to the list.
I have always been known here to be a “moderate” Republican, whatever that means. I was actually for common sense gun control. No more – we probably have never needed the 2nd amendment more than now.
Hey, maybe time will prove me wrong about Obama. If the first 3 weeks are any indication of things to come, we are in serious trouble.
#119 What makes you think I don’t AITX. That’s more of your intellectual snobbery showing and it’s bady misplaced here. What makes you think I don’t read Kos, MyDD, and HuffPo and other sites (as well as more standard sources)?
I think you owe me and many other readers here an apology for that one.
The point is that if you actually did any research into Obama (read his book!), you’d realize just how biased this last election the media really was when it came to Obama.
Hillary Clinton could see it. Why can’t you?
-Polaris
There will be no House vote today. Just heard it on Rush.
#126 I think the bobsy twins from Maine got cold feet.
-Polaris
120: Again, you’re lieing:
“#35 Yep. It’s 1933 Germany all over again.”
which was a response to:
“AATX will defend Obama right up until the very day that this site is shut down for being unpatriotic.”
Either comparing AATX’s defence of Obama, or this site being shut down to Nazi Germany. Not having a demogogue in power.
And for what happened in Germany 1933:
- Hitler became dictator
- ban on non-Nazi parties
- Opening of Dachau
- Establishment of Gestapo
- Ban on trade unions
- Massive book burnings
- Germany leaves League of Nations
I fail to see how that relates to USA 2009.
127 Polaris,
What is your source for that info?
By my last comment in #127, I think that the Maine senators smelled a rat with the vote being held so closely after a secret session where the fill was finalized and told the Dems that if they pushed them to vote on it before they had a chance to read it, they’d vote ‘no’ and fillibuster the bill….and the Dems didn’t want to put themselves in that situation hence the delay in the house vote.
I could be completely wrong but that’s my take assuming Brandon’s information is correct.
-Polaris
Marcus,
Control of Census
Funding of ACORN
Reinstatement of Fairness Doctrine
Creation of Civilian Defense Force
Need I say more?
re 125
I wasn’t suggesting that YOU aren’t well read.
In that case, the media bias issue is moot, since you can obviously see through it. Other people must be able to as well.
What I’m saying is that media bias is hard to quantify because you have to take into account the bias of the viewer/reader. Objectivity in that context is almost impossible because there’s bias from the receiver as well as the outlet.
If people make their decisions based on what certain media outlets say, its their fault.
Marcus,
I will concede the point on Germany. For the future, we will stick with Chavez in Venezuela (an Obama supporter BTW) and Peron in Argentina. OK?
They will vote tomorrow in the House.
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/02/12/politics/politicalhotsheet/entry4796360.shtml
#128 Marcus. Right. Did you bother to read the context when you cut-and-pasted. It does help. My POINT was that a lot of very decent germans were “poo-pooing” Hitler in 1933 when he first became chanceller in much the same way that AITX weas poo-pooing my objections to Obama now.
That was the extent of the comparison.
If you bothered to research this further on this site, it’s not the first time I’ve raised this concern and whenever I’ve explicitly compared Obama to anyone it’s been Juan Peron.
In the future Marcus, please get your facts straight.
-Polaris
Polaris,
I think the Chavez comparison may have merit in the future.
“Oil Slides Towards Multi-Year Low” AP
Gosh, I wonder why the price of gas is going up? Any ideas?
Obama is the anti-christ . Plain and simple.
God help us all
136-As oil prices continue to plunge, and the people of Argentina get poorer, Chavez will go the way of most Latin American dictators…in a coffin. I will bet in no less than a year.
Marcus,
Germany is not the best model/example. Venezuala and/or Argentia is better. However, some comparisons can be made and some corrections made. Your stuff in italics:
And for what happened in Germany 1933:
- Hitler became dictator
False. He became chancellor. He only took dictatorial powers after Kristalnact in a self-inflicted ‘national emergency’.
- ban on non-Nazi parties
See above. He didn’t do that immediately. He generated an excuse. In both cases there is a lot of 2009 left to go.
- Opening of Dachau
For all we know it could already have happened…not that Obama would need to. He could readjust resources and no one would know the difference until it was too late.
- Establishment of Gestapo
What do you think the Civilian National Defense Force is going to be?
- Ban on trade unions
Card Check
- Massive book burnings
Fairness Doctrine by administrative moves in the FCC
- Germany leaves League of Nations
This isn’t likely to happen because Obama’s scope and the UN are different…so OK I’ll give you this one Marcus.
My point is this: Having said that Germany is a poor comparison and example, I can still point to enough very chilling comparisons even so based on what Obama has already done (and not done). If you compare what happened in Argentina is goes beyond chilling.
-Polaris
#137 Oil Companies are anticipating inflation as well as deleveraging costs from poor investments based on 100USD per barrel oil.
The stickiness of gas and food prices are IMHO the proverbial canary in the coal mine for future hyperinflation.
-Polaris
Knova Red,
Don’t be naive. You know that Obama will intervene and prop up Chavez in the name of “freedom”.
Our boys will be on enemy soil again forced to help our own demise. First we help the Muslims, soon we will help Chavez.
God help us all
#139 I doubt it. Chavez will keep his military happy because he will keep the Russians happy. If your Generals are happy in Latin America (and they are in Venezuala), you can sleep soundly.
-Polaris
133: Fair enough! Too bad Polaris isn’t as big a man as you are.
135: still a reductio ad hitlerum. Why couldn’t you just have stuck with your usual comparisons? I’m sure comparisons to Nazi Germany are all the rage on the internet, but retarded all the same.
But to answer your attempt at making a point: AITX’s comments and the view of most Germans in 1933 ARE WORLDS APART. It is a very poor analogy, and in poor taste too.
Again: log off -> local library -> text book.
#129 No source. It’s speculation on my part. I could be completely wrong, but I don’t think I am. I think that if the Dems tried to force the vote today before the bobsy twins could read the bill, they would have turned on the Dems. I don’t know that for an absolute fact, however.
-Polaris
#144 Marcus,
No they aren’t. It’s pretty much the same in the most important respect:
Denial.
Obama has warned has in his own autobiography what sort of president he will be. You ignore this at your own peril.
Read “Dreams of My Father”. Listen to Obama’s old NPR interviews and pray you learn something.
-Polaris
Marcus,
One more thing. Until you made your laundry list which I neatly dissected (and I notice no cogent counteranalysis on your part), my comparison with Obama has strictly been Argentina. Don’t take my word for it. Ask the other board regulars or better yet review the past archives.
-Polaris
Polaris, you fail at history:
“False. He became chancellor. He only took dictatorial powers after Kristalnact in a self-inflicted ‘national emergency’.”
forgot about the 1933 Enabling Act. And the national emergency was the burning of the Reich, also in 1933. The Kristalnacht was 5 years later, and Hitler was well entrached by then.
“See above. He didn’t do that immediately. He generated an excuse. In both cases there is a lot of 2009 left to go.”
He did do that in 1933. Non-nazi parties were banned.
147: see 148. I could do the others too, if you’d prefer.
146: So the only analogy is “denial”. Wow. That’s pretty generic. You could have picked a million other examples to make your point, but you pick Nazi Germany. Why?
Marcus will defend Skippy until he’s sent to the end.
“White folk’s greed runs a world in need” – Obama from Dreams of my father
How many times did I quote that last year?
#148 You’re right about Kristalnacht. That was used as an excuse to round up the Jews. I WAS right about the self-inflicted national emergency and I WAS right that he didn’t declare himself dictator immediately.
As I said before, there is a lot of 2009 left.
Hmm, turns out I know my history a bit better than you think. Care to think that Obama won’t do this? Read his book and listen to his old interviews and listen to his good buddy Odinga.
-Polaris
#149 Why not? When people talk about appeasment, they refer to Munich even though there are many other examples in history.
The most potent and shameful case of denial was in Germany which is why I used it.
Deal with it Marcus.
-Polaris
150: No, I just hate comparisons to Nazi Germany. My grandfather survived a Nazi work camp. Nothing that’s happening in the US today can be compared with the horrors of that era.
#154 No one died and made you God, Marcus so I will use whatever examples I please especially if they are valid.
-Polaris
149:
#1. And comparisons to Munich are also equally retarded. Iran (or North Korea, or Syria) are NOT NAZI GERMANY.
#2. That most shameful case of denial refers to Germans denying the holocaust while it was happening (Wir haben es nicht Gewust – We didn’t know). Not to Hitlers ambitions to power.
#156
Whether you like it or not, ‘Munich’ and ‘Appeasement’ are still linked together and probably will be for the forseeable future.
OK, I’ll agree that Holocaust Denial is worse but honestly it’s part and parcel of the same denial I am talking about. Pretty much in every case where a functioning democracy falters into a dictatorship, it happens almost invisibly and until (and sometimes even after!) it happens, people deny it’s possible “there”.
I see the same danger here.
-Polaris
Turns out, according to CNN that the House vote was delayed because some unhappy DEMOCRATS wanted to read the new language in the bill on Education, before they voted. Interesting.
Outside of Mike, no one has answered my question about the Patriot Act.
#157: Still c’mon. Even if the same kind of denial, Obama will not start a second holocaust and will not try to conquer America’s neighbours to expand America’s lebensraum. Even if the mechanisms are occasionally somewhat similar, there is still no comparison in scale. And that’s the whole problem here. Compare him to Chavez or Peron all you want, those guys aren’t in the same league as Adolf Hitler. Obama is not in the same league as Adolf Hitler. And America is only vaguely analogous at best to 1930s Germany. It’s just such a bad and distastful comparison, and you (and your argument) would look a lot better if you wouldn’t make it. MDefl conceded this, why can’t you?
He won’t have to conquer Mexico, that country is about to fall on its own. He’ll just step in under the guise of restoring order.
#160 I did. What part of “Germany is a poor comparison at best” did you miss. Until this thread (and even in it) I have consistantly compared Obama to Peron and I have never compared Obama to Hitler at least not directly.
-Polaris
#162. Fair enough, let’s leave it at that.
Tim,
The Patriot Act is not a perfect piece of legislation but the fact is that even Democrats were falling over themselves to sign it. Personally, I think it is too intrusive in some cases and the power can be potentially misused by those of ill will.
Don’t misunderstand me. I am all for electronic surveillance of international calls. These are completely different issues.
164…agreed. I am for civil liberties, but civil liberties are hard to enjoy when you are a pile of ashes under a bombed building.
Here are several VERY eye-opening quotes from Thomas Jefferson, one of our greatest preidents.
When we get piled upon one another in large cities, as in Europe, we shall become as corrupt as Europe
Thomas Jefferson
The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.
Thomas Jefferson
It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. A principle which if acted on would save one-half the wars of the world.
Thomas Jefferson
I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
Thomas Jefferson
My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government.
Thomas Jefferson
No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.
Thomas Jefferson
The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
Thomas Jefferson
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
Thomas Jefferson
In light of the present financial crisis, it’s interesting to read what Thomas Jefferson said in1802:
Banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.
Doesn’t this sound eerily familiar to what is happening in America today?
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