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Debate #1 Open Thread

Before we get to tonight’s debate, how about a look back at a classic moment from 1988.

I am putting this thread up in advance since I do not know whether or not I am actually going to be able to watch the debate tonight….

One prediction I am willing to make in advance regardless of what happens tonight is that whatever “snap polls” the media comes up will invariably show Barack Obama won the debate. I think every “snap poll” in 2004 claimed Kerry won all three debates…we all saw how well that worked for him….

Talk about the debate before, during, and after….

Posted by Dave at 8:00 pm
Filed under: 2008 President | Comments (604)

604 Responses to “Debate #1 Open Thread”

  1. Howard Dean says:

    Mexican Actor Rips Obama on Abortion

    Friday, September 26, 2008 3:41 PM

    By: Jim Meyers Article Font Size

    Mexican film star Eduardo Verastegui has recorded a video message aimed at Hispanic voters that slams Barack Obama’s record on abortion.

    Verastegui, best known in the U.S. for his role in the 2006 pro-life movie “Bella,” asserts in the message that most abortion clinics are located in Hispanic neighborhoods and that the Spanish media frequently carry pro-abortion advertising.

    “Abortion is not only a lucrative industry, it is also used by people who are racist as a means to eliminate our people, since they consider us to be a threat to democracy in this country,” Verastegui states.

  2. Big Joe says:

    not dukakis!!!

  3. Benni says:

    tonight will be there Dukakis no.2

  4. Benni says:

    Ok Tina I must accept that!!!

    have you take a look at zogbys ev map??

  5. Benni says:

    buy the book of Webster Griffin Tarpley
    he wrote what will happen to the polls for the election season this time!
    The Obamas try it at first in N.H. in the primary there and now again in GE but not with the results they want!!

  6. BobbyC in OR says:

    Do the dem’s just dust off the Presidential play book when it fits the candidate ? Looking at the Bush clips “talking about being one heart beat away” it strikes me funny. Obama still hasn’t laid out a plan for any policy and says go to the website to read it. Exactly what JK did four years ago. It just makes me laugh. So predictable.

  7. Darrell says:

    Wow, McCain is ripping Obama apart in this debate! Oh wait, when does it start?

  8. BobbyC in OR says:

    9pm est / 6pm pac

  9. Darrell says:

    8. I know…I was just mocking the back and forth that will come later. No matter what happens at the debate, trolls will come on here and say what a disappointment McCain was. “I am a lifelong Republican who hopes McCain will win, but even I have to admit that he was defeated the Messiah—I mean his opponant.”

  10. lisab says:

    dukakis was great … but he phrased the answer incorrectly … the right answer was:

    “i would want to kill the guy myself … i would go buy a gun … and blow his head off …

    which … listen … listen … which is why …

    we have laws designed to prevent emotion and revenge from entering into sentencing.

    no matter how much the victims’ families are justifiably upset … as a society we MUST give everyone a fair trial … must not make laws that are simply revenge … and must ban guns”

  11. rdelbov says:

    I knew Dukakis lost the election at that point.

  12. Big Joe says:

    The dukakis incident is one of the primary reasons that debates really don’t matter anymore. Candidates will play it very very safe.

    Any gaffe is so magnified that it could be a campaign killer.

    That said, I think we do have the potential for minor gaffes since the candidates get to talk to each other directly today. Its a nice format that seems new.

  13. Victrc says:

    hey will the debate be carried online live anywhere, not live blogged but actually live so i can watch it and still look at comments here
    thanks

  14. lisab says:

    there is NO way such a question would be asked of obama …

    today it will be …

    “senator obama what is your favourite colour?”

    or

    “your opponent is very very very old … how do you feel about that senator obama?

  15. Big Joe says:

    Vic,

    msnbc.com says they’re carrying the debate live.

  16. Big Joe says:

    Lisa,

    Would you be so kind as to honor my evaluation request from the previous thread.

    Time to put the kids to bed, happy debate watching all!!!!

    i’m not watching it

  17. Benni says:

    the show begins

  18. Benni says:

    uuh

    obama looks so terrible

  19. jones says:

    Why not ask Obama about all the Fannie Mae money he took? He harps on responsibility. Take it Obama.

  20. Rachel says:

    I didn’t realize this was supposed to be a debate on the economy.

  21. Rachel says:

    Nearly a million dollars of pork barrel spending that Obama’s asked for PER DAY that he’s been in the senate.

    Way to go, McCain!

  22. jones says:

    How can Obama complain about high gas prices? He said he was for them.

  23. jones says:

    Get to foreign policy!

    Way to cover for Obama.

  24. Rachel says:

    Okay, now Obama’s bragging about China going into space, and mentioning that we need to keep up. I guess he’s forgotten about our going to the moon how many years ago???

  25. Rachel says:

    It’s been half an hour, and still no mention of foreign policy.

  26. Rachel says:

    He just pressed Obama to give a specific, and Obama started stuttering and looking completely lost.

  27. david says:

    We need to get to foreign policy ASAP.

  28. Bobby says:

    Why? McCain is just doing great against Obama so far.

  29. Dylan says:

    So far. Pablum city.

    Obama’s make up btw, is absurd!

  30. Darrell says:

    McCain is doing great!

  31. Benni says:

    mccin is great:-)
    he is proud to work on it with Senator CLINTON:-)booom!!

  32. Benni says:

    maybe rachel its better to talk about foreign policy and defense in one of the others debate!
    It will be a clear wining issue for mccain a it near to election day!!

  33. Rachel says:

    Obama just said that Bush is McCain’s president. I take it that means Obama doesn’t consider himself an American?

    Oh, yeah, I forgot. He’s a citizen of the world.

  34. Rachel says:

    They’re finally talking foreign policy (40 minutes into the debate).

  35. rdelbov says:

    So far I think McCain is well ahead on points and Obama is well ahead on minutes.

    Not sure Obami has said anything

  36. Rachel says:

    McCain is making Obama look like idiot!

  37. Rachel says:

    McCain is going up on Ras markets. Obama is going down.

  38. jones says:

    Bush is taking a beating here. I don’t see any way W gets elected in ’08.

    What?

    Then why the hell….

  39. Rachel says:

    “I’m afraid Senator Obama doesn’t understand the difference between a tactic and a strategy.”

    McCain is on fire!

  40. jones says:

    Look at Obama’s fake smiles. The moderator is trying to cut McCain off, and he is still smacking Obama down..

    Stop interupting.

  41. Rachel says:

    Yeah, the Obama smirk is getting worse as the debate wears on.

  42. Rachel says:

    Whenever they’re asked what they’ll do, McCain replies and Obama talks about what Bush did.

    Why doesn’t he just say, “I don’t know.”

  43. jones says:

    Petreus and bin Laden agree…

    smack!

  44. Rachel says:

    Obama’s blinking is giving Pelosi a run for her money.

  45. Bobby says:

    This is great. Obama looks horrible.

  46. jones says:

    Invade Pakistan?

    Say it, say it!

  47. Rachel says:

    Obama just chided Obama for saying out loud that he would strike Pakistan.

    Obama is being schooled.

  48. Rachel says:

    #47 – I meant McCain just chided Obama

  49. jones says:

    Obama could chide himself. I wouldn’t be surprised.

  50. Rachel says:

    I loved McCain’s tone of voice when he said, “You don’t say that out loud.”

  51. Darrell says:

    Where are the Obama trolls tonite? I am surprised they are not here proping him up?

  52. rdelbov says:

    I understood you.

    McCain is cleaning house

  53. Rachel says:

    Now, the question is, will the left-wing media plaster the headline all over:

    Obama calls for strikes against Pakistan

  54. PurpleDeac says:

    I don’t think either guy has looked very strong in this debate. After the initial 9 minute segment on the financial crisis it has been pretty boring.

  55. Rachel says:

    This is anything but boring. McCain is making Obama look like a little fool.

  56. f9gopguyIN says:

    the only thing that upsets me is that mccain didn’t go for the jugular with freddie and fannie, i hope that he will in the domestic debates! there are still some uhm, uhs, and ahs but not as much as i expected from bambi i guess.

  57. jones says:

    Right wing 527s are going to be busy this weekend.

  58. DrJay says:

    Uh…well… I HAVE A BRACELET, TOO… nyaaah! What was that all about?

  59. Rachel says:

    Obama is completely lost. He’s on the defense and failing badly.

  60. Bobby says:

    Obama: I have a bracelet too!

  61. Dylan says:

    everyone thinks their guy is winning. you can’t win these things.

    one thing that CAN be said, is that McCain does NOT look like an old man. He is spry and fiesty.

  62. Darrell says:

    This is great…I am glad McCain didn’t cancel the debate.

  63. Rachel says:

    McCain looks like a grown-up. Obama looks like a schoolboy.

  64. Sean Lockyer says:

    I didn’t see it-I am watching the college football game on ESPN 2 due to nervousness and apprehension. Please be as unbiased as possible-did MAC really school Obama ? I mean, really dominate and win the debate ?

  65. david says:

    wait, wait, Moderator, I have a bracklet…John doesn’t have anything over me

  66. jones says:

    Sean, I truly think Obama is being pushed around. He is stuttering, and tense.

    Who is playing?

  67. Tina says:

    Mccain appears to be winning in obama’s main format.

  68. DrJay says:

    Sean, McCain looks like a knowledgeable leader. Obama is looking like a batch of untested ideas.

  69. jones says:

    League of Democracies. Dump the UN, get honest govenments together.

  70. Darrell says:

    Yes…Obama getting his clock cleaned.

  71. Tina says:

    It took him 3 minutes to mention the solider’s name.

  72. Rachel says:

    The debate is still going on, but Obama is looking like a little kid trying to keep up.

    McCain is speaking clearly and with authority about specifics.

  73. Sean Lockyer says:

    68. Jones-Louisville and Uconn-not a bad game. I can’t watch the debates! UGH!! Too much pressure! I feel like Tweek from South Park! Thanks, and go MAC!!

  74. Rachel says:

    Obama keeps obsessing about the past. McCain is talking about the future and what needs to be done.

  75. Todd says:

    ON MCCAIN!!!!

  76. Rachel says:

    Obama is now advocating diplomacy with Iran.

  77. Darrell says:

    Yes…good move Obama…diplomacy with the guy who wants to wipe Israel off the map. That has to go over well with Jewish voters.

  78. Rachel says:

    McCain is now schooling Obama on why sitting down without pre-conditions with Iran would be a bad idea.

  79. DrJay says:

    McCain is nailing him on legitimizing Iran and company by talking with them without preconditions, and listing precedents from the past with names.

    Obama says the Iranian president may not be the most powerful person in Iran, so maybe he would talk to someone else?

  80. jones says:

    Does Obama have a point?

  81. Akula says:

    I truly enjoy the up/down tick meters on CNN/HD.

    You would never know that Begala was a DEM. I sure that even statisticians would appreciate how he diverges from the other two counter commentators on their scoring system.

    If you took out the high and the low, his votes would disappear. I don’t say this much, but what a tool.

    BTW, aren’t we supposed to decide on ourselves who won the debate? This isn’t a class in rhetoric with the instructor giving us a guidebook.

  82. Howard Dean says:

    I’m not watching but word on the net is Obama is out of his league.

    Agree?

  83. Rachel says:

    McCain just corrected Obama. Who needs fact checkers? McCain’s practically a walking encyclopedia.

  84. Rachel says:

    Obama looks like a kid who won a ticket in a cereal box to stand on the stage and debate an expert.

  85. Brin says:

    I am extremely impressed with McCain. I knew he had more passion than and I knew he was an amazing leader and of great character but McCain has schooled Obama, schooled him in an intellectual way using amazing historical perspective. Seriously, took him down several notches.

  86. rdelbov says:

    We need McCain now to mention the foreign affairs sub committee chairmanship of Obama

  87. david says:

    Wow, I wish this debate would go on until midnight..

  88. Rachel says:

    If I were an Obama supporter, I’d be embarrassed to admit it after tonight.

  89. DrJay says:

    Did Obama just tell instruct Lehrer to “go on” to the next question?

  90. Rachel says:

    McCain just called Obama naive.

  91. Rachel says:

    McCain: “I looked into Putin’s eyes and I saw three letters: a K, a G, and a B.”

  92. david says:

    Please, extend this to 11 pm.

  93. TranceMaster says:

    This is not even close. McCain is crushing him, and doing it in the proper speech and tone. It is also funny watching the trade markets continue to go down for Obama as the debate goes on. That tells you the true perception out there right now.

  94. michael corleone says:

    McCain is an adult.

    Obama is a child.

  95. Darrell says:

    McCain did this well tonight, not having had time to prepare the last two days.

  96. Bobby says:

    9 minutes till McCain wins!

  97. Rachel says:

    Okay, is there anything McCain DOESN’T know?

  98. jones says:

    McCain knows his Georgia/Russia.

  99. Brin says:

    Obama has mentioned the words “Senator McCain is right” or “I agree with Senator McCain” at least 4 four times.

  100. Rachel says:

    It’s going to be impossible for the press to sugar-coat this disaster for Obama.

  101. rdelbov says:

    Did Obama just say that Tommy Smothers was the leader of the Ukraine

  102. jones says:

    Should have bought McCain at 43.

  103. lisab says:

    “Where are the Obama trolls tonite? I am surprised they are not here proping him up?”

    they have to get their talking points … which are being written

    seriously go to google advanced search, and search obam’s site for “talking points” they have them for many topics

    the trolls will come … but notice they come at the SAME time

    that is why cory really isn’t a troll … he is just a canadian … subtle difference but … cory does not just come around when the dems tell him to spin.

  104. Brin says:

    This man Obama is woefully unqualified to run for President.

  105. Rachel says:

    I’m almost embarrassed for Obama. This was beyond pathetic.

  106. Brin says:

    McCain needs to bring up the 10 debates anytime, anywhere.

  107. Tim Van says:

    I thought McCain missed a lot of opportunities to attack Obama. He could have nailed him on:
    1. Drilling and nuclear
    2. His involvement and contributions from fannie and that it was Dodd and the dems that blocked oversight attempts on fannie
    3. on iraq, why not say saddam would stillbe in power if we had gone obama’s way
    4. on obama’s tax cuts favoring the rich

    Overall, I thought Obama was quite well prepared.
    I wanted McCain to crush him and I didn’t see that. I’m sorry to go against the grain here. I’m
    NOT saying that Obama won the debate, I was just hoping for a better McCain performance.

  108. Rachel says:

    The question after this debate is not who won.

    The question is how Obama got to stand on the same stage as McCain.

  109. lisab says:

    if i was a betting woman …

    i would bet $100 that the headlines tomorrow will “obama wins” or at worst “obama slightly better, but no major gaffes by mccain” … and “mccain looked old and tired”

  110. jones says:

    Obama is going to say were are less safe because of Iraq!

    Book it

  111. TranceMaster says:

    What we witnessed tonight is a President and an actor posing as one.

  112. MDefl says:

    Wow! This is a total debacle. I thought this format might help BO but I was wrong. Unless he has a teleprompter, he is simply not capable of stringing together sentences that..well..make any sense.

    How can anyone take him seriously anymore?

  113. phoenixrisen says:

    Guys, McCain has just wiped the floor with Obama. I thought McCain would win big, but not like this.

  114. jones says:

    109 rich Lowry agrees with you.

  115. Brin says:

    I really did not expect this type of defeat for Obama. I expected McCain to have the correct points and perspective but to outright just command the entire discussion from start to finish to the point where Obama tried to talk over him because he was embarassed about the points McCain was making is just amazing.

  116. Howard Dean says:

    Obama just flip flopped on missile defense!!

  117. michael corleone says:

    Tim Van,

    I agree with you re economic policy. McCain made some attacks, but left a lot of points on the table — especially your point about the Democrats and fannie and freddie.

    Nevertheless, while Obama may have won the first five minutes of the debate, McCain completely dominated him in the remaining 85 minutes.

  118. MDefl says:

    Tin Van,

    He will hit him on those points but this debate is on foreign policy.

    BO just credits McCain again. Thanks Barry!

  119. DEM for McCain/Palin says:

    Both candidates have had their strong points so far, but McCain has been clearer, while The Chosen One keeps going into his professorial gibberish trying a little too much to make himself look like he knows what he is saying.

    McCain should have hammered him on the 2005 FM/FM bill.

  120. phoenixrisen says:

    #109, I disagree. Mac nailed Obama on drilling and nuclear energy. Iraq and the tax cuts Mac dominated. He didn’t point out the Fannie Mae Freddie Mac lobbyist ties. Can’t get everything. Mac has been masterful tonight.

  121. rdelbov says:

    McCain is wiping the floor with Obami

  122. Brin says:

    Yes, you should be scared and anxious Tim Van.

  123. jones says:

    112- I told you.

  124. MDefl says:

    This has been a total rout so far. Maybe BO can end strong.

    What the hell is Barry talking about now? He just transitioned from Iraq to China.

  125. phoenixrisen says:

    Mac mentioned his trying to reform the industry (Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac) but he didn’t go into depth.

  126. Rachel says:

    Obama’s stuttering is getting worse. He’s flustered.

  127. rdelbov says:

    Is Obami going to go on until Midnight?

  128. MikeKS says:

    I don’t think I’ve EVER seen a bigger gap in performance in watching debates. McCain has absolutely ran circles around Obama in this debate, particularly on foreign policy, to the point Obama looks completely unprepared, incredibly naive, and so far to the extreme on some issues he isn’t even credible. If McCain isn’t ahead by mid next week, and by a good margin, I’d be shocked. Obama may have lost the election tonight.

  129. Howard Dean says:

    I hope 60 million are watching.

  130. jones says:

    O is filibustering. Why not kneel down 4 times Obama.

  131. MDefl says:

    What in the name of God is he talking about?

  132. Mad Dog says:

    Dan, checked the site, seems to back up what McCain said and refutes what Obama said. Just my take. Sorry.

  133. Rachel says:

    McCain: “There are some advantages to experience and knowledge and judgement.”

  134. david says:

    #109, i agree with you on certain extent, especially drilling and nuclear and the fannie mae issue. Missed opportunites. McCain let Obama live to fight another day. He could have KO him with just exposing her record.

  135. MDefl says:

    Mac just hammered him on the surge! Awesome.

  136. lisab says:

    i disagree … honestly. i think the lack of trolls is causing unnecessary confidence …

    mccain sounds sincere … i give you that … and knowledgeable

    but … obama keeps saying … “mccain is bush” … obama is on message … hope, change, defeat bush.

  137. MDefl says:

    “I don’t need any on the job training”. Brilliant. O’s response – “My father is from Kenya”.

  138. The Great One says:

    I also checked Dan’s site. I agree it supports what McCain said.

  139. jones says:

    So foreign students don’t want to come to the US anymore?

  140. Rachel says:

    Lisa, then why is McCain surging on the markets?

  141. DEM for McCain/Palin says:

    What is The Chosen One’s reason for bringing up his father coming here to live out his dream?

    He came here a deadbeat, and left a deadbeat. What was the point?

  142. MDefl says:

    David,

    I totally disagree with you. Mac has wiped the floor with this lightweight. It was not even close. A knockout victory.

  143. Rachel says:

    It’s over. Now Obama can go backstage and ask for his pacifier.

  144. jones says:

    See the faces as the walked to Lehrer?

    That said more than intrade

  145. Mad Dog says:

    lisab, you must be watching a different debate. It was about as close to a knockout as I thought possible–and I’m not a big fan of McCain (and I don’t really hate Obama).

  146. lisab says:

    “don’t think I’ve EVER seen a bigger gap in performance in watching debates. McCain has absolutely ran circles around Obama …”

    this is cheney vs. edwards part II

    edwards was clearly out of his depth but smooth

    cheney knew everything … he had held every office in government but president … so knew the details of … everything

    but edwards looked swave and deBONer

  147. MikeKS says:

    The debate was quite ugly for Obama. Talk about blowing your whole campaign.

  148. Darrell says:

    McCain blew him away tonight….again after not being able to prepare the last two days.

  149. MDefl says:

    The trolls are not here because it is almost impossible to give a serious argument that Obama did well.

    Trust me, they were here when Kerry won the first debate against Bush.

  150. phoenixrisen says:

    This was a slaughter. MSM will try to spin it but there was no question who won.

  151. Howard Dean says:

    Go vote on the Drudge poll.

    Mac up big.

  152. MDefl says:

    Gosh, Obama is winning the on-line surveys. LOL!

  153. Dylan says:

    I have to say that McCain really surprised me. he was on tonight. This is the end of the age card being played. He is READY to be the pres. Much much more compelling than ANYTHING I saw out of Mac in 2000.

  154. lisab says:

    you all know i despise the sexist pig …

    but i do not think it will be reported as badly as you all think …

    and tomorrow i predict … more trolls than you can shake a stick at … as they spin what he says.

    let’s see … who will show up tomorrow

    kn
    Big Joe
    messy
    tm

    we may even get a visit by harry

    plus cory … but he’s not a troll … just a canadian

  155. MikeKS says:

    Fred Barnes — a tie?? You’re wrong. Some of these Washington insiders, even conservatives (NRO, Fox News, etc), have their head so far in the clouds they can’t see the big picture.

  156. Dylan says:

    I will now be surprised if McCain doesnt win a 350 + EV victory.

  157. jones says:

    159 is right.

    They will get points and show up, but it will be weak.

  158. MikeKS says:

    Bill Kristol has it right — no complete knockout, but total domination.

  159. MDefl says:

    Mac had a great night. Obama was on the defensive all night.

  160. Brandon says:

    CNN had an “Audience reaction” line on the poll for Reps, Dems, and Indies.

    I found it funny that the “Indies” line seemed to move in the exact same way as the Dem line.

  161. MikeKS says:

    Indies = clueless.

  162. lisab says:

    “Lisa, then why is McCain surging on the markets?”

    Rachel, the spin is being written

    fred barnes? … what did you expect

    “Gosh, Obama is winning the on-line surveys. LOL!”

    what did you think would happen?

  163. MDefl says:

    Lisa,

    That is what the LOL is for!

  164. MDefl says:

    Juan Williams sides with Obama. I am stunned. LOL!

  165. lisab says:

    sorry people … i love Palin … i’d load her polar bear huntin gun for her …

    but this will NOT be reported as a big obama loss …

    (unless something factual comes up that they can’t gloss over … but you can’t screw up … “hope change and bush is mccain”

  166. lisab says:

    “Lisa, That is what the LOL is for!”

    that was a quote … not my LOL

  167. Darrell says:

    online surveys could just be written, “Who are you voting for”? rather than “who won the debate?”

  168. MDefl says:

    Lisa,

    It no longer matters what the msm reports. They are irrelevant. The country just saw Mac school Obama especially on Iran.

  169. John says:

    John McCain rocketed himself towards the Presidency tonight!

  170. phoenixrisen says:

    WaPo says that Obama won on the economy??? HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! RIGHT!!

  171. Tim says:

    I am here, Lisa. And, I’m no troll. S o, bite me.
    No one hit any homeruns, tonight. I thought the debate was dominated on the Economy by Obama, and that McCain won the later half on Foreign affairs. No defining moments, or nothing that memorable.

    To suggest what was suggested in #145 is ludicrous. And, partisan.

    Tie.

  172. Desert Hermit says:

    Go leave feedback on the debate on Drudge’s poll. NOW!

  173. Big Joe says:

    Guys,

    I’m still here. Didn’t watch the debate. But reading the comments it seems that the righty pundits thought JS did well, and lefty pundits thought BO did well.. so to me this must have been your usual boring debate. Glad I missed it and actually got some housework done during these two hours!

  174. Big Joe says:

    So everyone here thinks MAC completely destroyed BO .. why am i not surprised?

    I might have to watch the darn thing after all to see for myself .. ugh, darn Tivo need to get rid of that thing!

  175. phoenixrisen says:

    Tim, I totally disagree. The first 30 minutes were just flat out ugly. Obama seemed to gain his feet in foreign policy but every time he made a jab at McCain, McCain would come back with a haymaker. Particularly telling was McCain roasting Obama about meeting with the president of Iran without pre-conditions.

  176. Big Joe says:

    OMG check out these “debate results”

    republicans think MAC won 90-10
    democrats think BO won 93-7
    Indies are divided

    LOL. I guess people only hear what they want to hear. Debates won’t be changing many minds folks!

  177. Big Joe says:

    So I have to ask this important question:

    Did MAC hit it out of the proverbial ballpark tonight? And please try to be objective, I know its hard. But its hard for me too.

  178. greg says:

    109 rich Lowry agrees with you.

    Comment by jones — 9/26/2008 @ 10:29 pm

    F*** the NRO. I won’t go back to that website after it advocated kicking Palin off of the ticket.

  179. James Milner says:

    Nice to see the TROLL Little Joe

  180. greg says:

    Anyway, I’ve been drinking heavily. What happened with the debate? Did McCain win? Can I expect Obama to be declaraed victorious by the Goebbels Stream Media tomorrow?

  181. Big Joe says:

    Nice to see you too James. What did you think of the debate?

  182. greg says:

    Well: I see Tim says “tie” –that’s good news. That means McCainwiped the floor w/ bamessiah

  183. Big Joe says:

    Fred Barnes rated it a tie???

  184. greg says:

    Fred Barnes sucks almost as much as the NRO.

  185. House Sparrow says:

    Mac did well tonight. He showed very clearly that he is ready to be President. Obama did not.

    While Obama did not make any blatantly horrible gaffes, he was obviously tense, and at times visibly irritated and thrown off balance. Mac was calm and cool all the way, even when Obama got borderline obnoxious.

    I think Mac successfully defused the “old and senile” nonsense, while Obama did not do much to counter the still very prevalent concern about his inexperience. It was certainly no quick knockout, but McCain won this one comfortably.

  186. Big Joe says:

    Isn’t Fred Barnes a righty? For him to say its a tie is suspicious

  187. greg says:

    NRO = whiney surrender monkeys (= French?)

  188. greg says:

    I don’t see hwo McCain is “surging” in the markets when he’s at 42.1 in intrade.

  189. Big Joe says:

    Where is everyone??? the only commentator posting here is a drunk guy – i guess that speaks volumes.

    Its all good guys, the good news is that in a few days no one will remember this debate. So whoever sucked up the joint, they have nothing to fear.

  190. GeauxLSU says:

    Did you notice Obama’s face when McCain was spouting off the Russian names and places and his clear expertise about that country? He clearly had no clue who any of those people were and where those places were. Obama’s smirking and constant interruptions were revealing. His “let’s move on” plea to Lehrer when he was getting hammered was priceless.

  191. greg says:

    GoLSU: all i want to hear is “McCain pwn3d Obama”

    If Obama is going to win, Congressionsl gop should kill the commie bail out bill.

  192. phoenixrisen says:

    Big shock. George Steffi on Nightline says Obama won. Terry Moran counters “I myself think it went the other way.”

  193. Big Joe says:

    I just flipped thru CNN, FOX and MSNBC … every single righty is praising JSM, every single lefty is praising BO. this is quite a joke.

  194. Big Joe says:

    Did MAC mention about his campaign suspension and all the pre debate activities? I hope he did, that would have been an effective line for him.

  195. Big Joe says:

    Holy crap, CNN is trashing Palin.

  196. greg says:

    BJ: lucky for bambi, 98% of the members of the main stream propaganda machine are lefties, so Obama will be the consensus winner.

  197. Dan says:

    From Bloomberg, (3/14):
    Former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger said the U.S. should negotiate directly with Iran over its nuclear program and other bilateral issues. “One should be prepared to negotiate, and I think we should be prepared to negotiate about Iran,” Kissinger, who brokered the end of the 1973 Yom Kippur war and peace talks with the North Vietnamese, said yesterday in an interview with Bloomberg Television. Asked whether he meant the U.S. should hold direct talks, Kissinger, 84, responded: “Yes, I think we should.”

    And from from CNN, (9/20):
    Kissinger: “Well, I am in favor of negotiating with Iran. And one utility of negotiation is to put before Iran our vision of a Middle East, of a stable Middle East, and our notion on nuclear proliferation at a high enough level so that they have to study it. And, therefore, I actually have preferred doing it at the secretary of state level so that we — we know we’re dealing with authentic…” Sesno: “Put at a very high level right out of the box?”

  198. greg says:

    CNN trashing Palin. What’s new? That’s the same ol’ same ol’ for the last 3 weeks (see 200).

  199. Big Joe says:

    How do you define “winning” a debate? That’s something I never quite understood.

    You could argue an assinine point. If you are opponent arguing a reasonable point stumbles, do you actually win the debate? lame

  200. Big Joe says:

    Hey good news Greg .. turn on FOX. 82% of viewers and Hannity think that McCain won! LOL

  201. Big Joe says:

    OOPS CNN says 67% of viewers think BO won. Who to believe …

  202. greg says:

    Biden votes with Bush 52% of the time! Is that what you want for this country!?

    http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/09/26/fact-check-does-mccain-almost-always-agree-with-bush/

  203. Big Joe says:

    Don’t worry Greg – Biden is scheduled to have a “health” problem in mid october.

  204. Big Joe says:

    This is boring – Good night Greg, please don’t drive tonight.

  205. greg says:

    Despite being #1 in cable news, fox is still only in cable news. Their viewers don’t mean much and their commentators dont shape public opinion. Heck, I didn’t even watch the debate and I am a pol junkie and stand to lose a ton of money of Obambi is elected (which he will be). What do you expect of normal folk? They will read the cnn headlines and that will be that. (even NRO is on the Obama band wagon)

  206. Tina says:

    No knockout, but I score it heavily for McCain. The liberal nut on my SF TV says the same. Big Win for McCain.

  207. BernieSadori says:

    One small thing I wish McCain would have jumped on was when Obama said, “Your President”.

    How can you bring in a new era of politics and work with the other side if we continue to say “your” President. As much as I didn’t like Clinton, he was still MY President.

    As far as the debate, I thought McCain won. He was VERY specific on foreign policy.

    At one point I told my wife I was embarrassed for Obama on the question of Russia and Georgia. The man had no clue was he was talking about and pulled the oldest debate trick in the book….change the subject.

  208. greg says:

    How can you bring in a new era of politics and work with the other side if we continue to say “your” President.

    Comment by BernieSadori — 9/27/2008 @ 12:07 am

    BernieSadori: that’s how one accomplishes being “post-partisan” and a “uniter”.

  209. Tina says:

    I liked you got the seal line to MccAin. I really worried about this format for McCain. IT served him well. I watched with 2 liberals, and they got irritated at the ums, uhs, from Obama.

  210. Tina says:

    Liberals say its a tie = a big MAC rout.

  211. greg says:

    Tina: thought you weren’t going to watch?

    Anyway, after reading the NRO this morning I realized that this election is over. Even NRO is calling for Palin to be thrown off the ticket. If this is the state of the conservative movement, I don’t want any part of it. Poor William F Buckley. I bet that poor man is rolling over in his grave at what a pathetic hack institution the national review has become.

  212. Tina says:

    Anyone notice Zeroes facial expressions? This was not good.

  213. Tina says:

    Obumblier Lied about Kissinger:

    Kissinger on Kissinger [Yuval Levin]

    He says tonight:

    Senator McCain is right. I would not recommend the next President of the United States engage in talks with Iran at the Presidential level. My views on this issue are entirely compatible with the views of my friend Senator John McCain. We do not agree on everything, but we do agree that any negotiations with Iran must be geared to reality.

    Check NRO. No Pres. negotiations.

  214. greg says:

    Tina: honestly, back in January, I liked Obama. His rhetoric was soaring and impressive. I wanted to believe. Now I can’t even stand to listen to him. It is like finger nails on a chalkboard.

  215. Tina says:

    Gred listened to it the old fashion way – radio.

    I dont watch the debate.

    How’s that for spin?

    NRO has numerous pundits and the consensus is that MAC won big, Greg.

  216. Robbie says:

    I didn’t get to see the debate, but I am hearten by the fact that so many at NRO thought McCain won. Those are tough people to please. Hopefully, the rest of the country feels the same way as NRO.

  217. Brin says:

    tina,

    Agreed. If CNN and liberals are calling this a tie then Mac won big. I use as my baseline the Kerry/Bush and Gore/Bush debates where the msm could barely contain themselves on how well their political peers Kerry and Gore did.

    I think Mac resonanted with many voters in the middle.

  218. Tina says:

    Whoops I misspelled your name, Greg, sorry.

  219. Tina says:

    For the lib to say its a tie means that its a big MAC win. Apply that to the OBamabots, CNN, NBC, etc. IT WAS NOT EVEN CLOSE – the most one sided debate I’ve heard in a long time
    .
    I listened to it with 2 liberals old school style. I know makeup/stances/etc. get in between the analysis. They complained about the uhs, ums, etc.

  220. Tina says:

    Check out Chrissy Tingle’s comments at Newsbusters.

    He does not have a tingle anymore.

  221. phoenixrisen says:

    IMHO, I thought Mac won big tonight. The thing I will say in regards to debates is that it is not about in most cases who wins, but who connects best with the people and I thought McCain did marvelous with that tonight. Sure, I thought he could have really laid the hammer down on Obama in one or two areas but he did land some real good blows throughout. In the first 30 minutes, I thought Obama was just flustered. This really surprised me because we all knew that what is going on in the economy was going to be talked about. When Mac nailed him on the 932 million dollars in earmark requests, Obama was on the defensive. Don’t let the MSM mislead you. Obama was reeling tonight early, seemed to gather himself well early in the foreign policy section but Mac again shone brightly here as expected. Obama really looked clueless toward the end. Mac’s knowledge of foreign policy was impressive. Obama really didn’t have any substance with his answers in the foreign policy section. I want Mac to win no doubt but being objective, this is what I saw. When Bush faced off with Kerry in 2004 in the first debate, I thought Bush was doing well early on and then fumbled and got creamed in the last half. I didn’t see at any point where Obama got the best of McCain. Maybe some of you or some trolls can help me out 🙂

  222. MikeKS says:

    NRO is a bunch of “stuffy” conservatives with their heads in the clouds. They all think they are SO cool and smart (see the Corner and all their cute blogs) and it’s really hard to take. They are conservative, yes, and sometimes write good things, but largely they are self-important elites. K-Lo is the worst and their drooling all over Romney in the primaries was hard to take. Lowry is a little whiny political hack, too, and Frum is the worst of all.

    They also talk waaay too much about drinking a lot, which is not a conservative behavior.

    Mark Levin is the only one I like, and he doesn’t post as much.

  223. Annie says:

    I thought Obama was incredibly rehearsed tonight, while McCain was the real deal – very authentic. I also thought McCain could have hit Obama on several points, such as on the bailout bill – how 20% of repayment would go to such organizations as Acorn. I also thought Obama looked really irritated, sometimes really mad, and rude in his attempts to interrupt when McCain was speaking (and he often succeeded thanks to Lehrer). On Fox, Luntz had a group of “undecided” voters in Las Vegas – many said they thought McCain seemed old and stammered…I wondered what they were watching! Couldn’t they hear Obama stuttering before he made any statement that wasn’t rehearsed? I will never understand how people fall for a baritone voice and things as lame as how tall someone is or the amount of hair on the head, rather than real experience in deciding who to vote for. Further, how so many of those “undecideds” claimed they thought that Obama, who makes millions in income (and kickbacks), is a socialist, and an arrogant individual, has compassion for “people like us” is just beyond reason!

  224. AlN says:

    OK, I too feel McCain won, but I’m not so sure it was a huge win. My big hope is that Bill Kristol is right — that a good bailout deal is agreed upon, and McCain gets some clear credit for it.

    All that being said, I think McCain (in the next debates) needs to address the following:
    (1) Obama’s claim that 95% will get a tax cut. That’s very appealing.
    (2) BO’s claim, tonight, that McCain will give an additional $300 billion is tax cuts to the rich.
    (3) Obama’s big point that McCain was wrong in voting for the Iraqi War. I think McCain needs to point out all of the fellow Democrats, including Hillary and Biden, who also voted for that war authorization. He could then say, “Senator, I’m pretty sure that if you had seen the same intelligence data that Senator Biden and I saw, you too very well would have voted the same way”. Of course he’d probably need to call for an improvement in our intelligence gathering capabilities.

  225. phoenixrisen says:

    Mac has plenty of time to prepare for the next two debates that will focus on the economy. He’ll be fine. I’m real happy with how he did tonight. I’ve seen some unofficial reaction from conservative people who have liberal friends and these friends were not happy at all with how Barry performed tonight. Let’s hope this is widespread.

  226. Naomi says:

    I think Barack needs to shift from dark colored suits to more earth tones. Also, he needs to shift from using the word “could” to using the word “would.”

  227. Annie says:

    I am still waiting for my tax rebate check from last spring that will never come…my husband and I make just over the “cut off” point judged to be “rich” or “middle class,” but out here in California money doesn’t go as far as it does in Missouri. We are about as “middle class” as can be, and are putting two kids through college without loans. However, my elderly parents (far more money and investments than me) were sent a big check! The idea that Obama and his liberal ilk will decide who is rich or middle class, how to redistribute wealth is so disturbing. What economics experience has Obama had to be taken as the savior of the American economy? None. Tax cuts for all tax payers stimulates the economy, not hand-outs to whoever fits below an imagined line, including those who pay no taxes at all. It is the “rich” who almost always create jobs and invest in building business, including the family farmers and small business owners. Over taxing the “rich” (who already pay the vast majority of taxes) causes a decrease in investment and jobs for the “middle class.”

  228. phoenixrisen says:

    Looking at the “Debate Reaction” section at RealClearpolitics.com, the liberal blogs are either saying tie or small victory for McCain (Slate of all places!) where the conservatives are saying solid to convincing victory for McCain. I’m pretty happy with this. I don’t think it was a knockout win but I thought it was a slaughter. Sorry, just my opinion 🙂

  229. Annie says:

    I was hoping that more would have been said about how Putin is supposedly making nuke deals with Hugo Chavez, and has Russian military jets and battleships in the Caribbean.

  230. indigo96 says:

    I think McCain got stronger as the debate went on. His opening about looking forward to a bipartisan solution and not giving specifics about his economic plan at the start of the debate hurt a little in my opinion. It reminded me too much of the immigration debacle. Obama dug a hole for himself though. He looked childish especially with the “I have a bracelet too” comment. He was disrespectful always interrupting McCain’s responses and tried to dictate to Lehrer when to move on to the next questions. I have a feeling that Kissinger comment is going to backfire too. He is not a man that likes to have words put in his mouth. I hope the McCain campaign puts him in an ad saying that Obama lied about his position.
    I wanted McCain to hammer Obama in this debate and he tried, but he’s still trying to win over the moderates too much. I’ll give it to Mac though because he gave specifics of why he’s qualified, all Obama could do was ramble about failed policies of the last 8 years and attempt to sound like a conservative with tax cuts, oversight in the bailout, more drilling, etc.

  231. Victrc says:

    am I going nuts or did we lose all the lisab and polaris comments??? They were just here becuase I was reading them and now they are gone??? IS it just me or did something happen???

  232. Marv says:

    Polaris

    Where are you and what did you think of the debate?

  233. lisab says:

    i think we lost a hundred comments

  234. lisab says:

    there were 333, now there are 238

  235. lisab says:

    yeah, everything from 1:36 am to 2:30 am

  236. Victrc says:

    Thanks Lisa I really thought I was going crazy. I was reading and then all of a sudden they went blank.

    As for myself I was actually watching it in a bar in Harlem of all places. I was surprised at the change of attitude by the end of the debate. I know Polaris initially (and maybe still does) think that Obama won technical points, but I think hes spot on with the analysis of respect.

    The people there, and AA on the subway afterwards were giving McCain some “props”. He looked Presidential tonight, and at best, Obama looked like a VP candidate. I honestly think the Dems did themselves a disservice by putting him on top of the ticket instead of setting the party up for later years.

    I honestly dont think he will win, and I am glad because I dont think hes ready to be President (as well as the fact that I think his policies are harmful to this country).

  237. Jake Towson says:

    Look at Drudge folks

    66% McCain
    32% Obama

    Total Votes: 191,261

  238. lisab says:

    no problem Victrc,

    i think mccain has a 50-50 chance maybe a little less

  239. clarke gable says:

    Look at CNN folks

    68% Obama
    26% McCain

    Total Votes: 162,812

  240. Victrc says:

    Lisab … I do enjoy your comments because you (as a Nader lover 😉 ) tend to give impartial input here. but on this one I have to disagree. I think the polls in the states that matter tell a reality that is difficult for a lot of Obama supporters to swallow.

    OH is off the board and I dont think even the most ardernt O supporters would disagree. I think any rational person (KB excluded of course) knows that Florida wil not go to Obama. Remember 04 was supposed to be close too, we just have too much ammunition (sorry for the analogy I know you dont like guns) there to lose the state.

    NM is probably blue, and we know IA is. I dont think Colorado is ready to move there yet, and VA…no way, not this time, maybe two more cycles but not now.

    Will McCain pick off MI??? I think there is a 25% chance he will;…PA only in a landslide too much to overcome out of philly. MN and WI…again only in a 350+ EV landslide.

    So to be honest, I think hes about 65/35 to win, at worst.

  241. lisab says:

    Victrc,

    in 2004 i might have agreed, but the media seems determined to have obama win.

    we can already see the drudge poll going down. it was 70:30 mccain earlier.

    the trolls will be out in force tomorrow.

    if enough people are told obama is ahead, the reps may not come out to vote, and indies may go with who they are told are winning.

  242. Victrc says:

    Lisab

    thats actually one of the benefits of the fragmented 24/7 media frenzy we have now, that most people will be able to get their “news” on the debate from more than one source, and the whole, it was a tie thing, will translate to a McCain victory.

    What heartens me most is that anyone, and I mean liberal pundit, anyone, watching tonight, knows that McCain was infinitely better than President Bush (and will someone please explain to my why democrats will not use the proper title of a republican. They wont say President Bush, only George Bush, same with Regan, never president reagan, with Palin the same and now with McCain. Goodness someone teach them manners and protocol) was in his first debate of 04 and we know how that turned out.

    I think three days out it will be seen as a MCcain victory and more than anything, it will take the age issue off the table. He is more than spry enough to give the junior senator from Illinois a talking to. And tonight, Obama looked like the Junior Senator from Illinois MCCain looked experienced and Presidential.

  243. lisab says:

    btw, this was the initial list of sites targeted by kos for voting for a obama win after the debate

    AOL News
    Atlanta Journal Constitution
    Chicago Tribune
    CNN
    The Drudge Report
    Michigan Live
    MSNBC
    Rocky Mountain News
    Politico.com

  244. Polaris says:

    Hey! What happened to my posts?!

    -Polaris

  245. lisab says:

    we lost about a hundred posts

  246. Polaris says:

    lisab,

    Yep, and it’s certainly worked for CNN. The Kossacks are quite good at spamming online polls. I am not sure I like the way the late-night spin is being done. A lot of damage is being done by those worthless Luntz polls.

    Dave,

    What happened to my posts? I don’t want to repeat everything!

    -Polaris

  247. Victrc says:

    Yes Polaris

    I was most interested in your interpretation of tonights events, I had just started to read them, refreshed and then lost them. Its going to be interesting to see how this is spun, not by the media, but by the ‘bots. I return to Columbia campus on Monday and I have a number of their student “leaders” in my monday classes and want to see how they react. It often tells me more than any poll ever could. When they get shrill (and im being literal here) you know they are scared and in trouble.

    I think at the end of teh day what will be remembered is that McCain did better than anyone (conservative or liberal) ever thought he would, he came off much younger than his years, and Obama looked like the Junior Senator From Illinois. This is what Americans will remember when they pull the lever on election day…who do you want to lead.

  248. Polaris says:

    I noticed including apparently all of mine. Drat, I put some real thought into a least a few sentences of some of them 🙂

    -Polaris

  249. Polaris says:

    Basically I think McCain won on body language and approach. Both knew their stuff (although McCain was clearly more versed in Foreign Affairs…not a shocker and largely irrelevant to my analysis) and I do think they were even with perhaps an Obama edge on technical points (I marked down because Mac let Obama get away with some whoppers on the economy).

    All that said, Obama smirked at the podium, looked down at the bracelet after saying “me too”, agreed with Mac multiple times (a huge mistake in any debate), called Mac “John” while Mac called Obama “Senator Obama” all of which contributed to Obama looking like a smart but arrogant (and dishonest) ass while Mac seemed to be the honest, humble, and experienced statesman.

    It’s that impression that I think will matter. We’ll know in three days.

    -Polaris

  250. lisab says:

    to sum up the lost posts …

    obama called mccain “John”

    mccain called obama “senator”

    we all agreed it was bad form on obama’s part. also, obama attacked a lot from question one. mccain wished ted kennedy well in his first sentence.

  251. Victrc says:

    Polaris

    It was interesting that they held this debate on a friday night, most people really wont begin to pick up the details, or process who won (and when I mean most people I mean not us poltically motivated or involved) but the average person. Its the weekend, its getting close to the end of decent (i.e. warm) weather so a lot of people will be out, then Sunday is football, it will be Sunday evening or the monday morning newspapers/shows, that really give them their information.

    I think that by then they will see that McCain performed better than anyones expectations. Most thought he would get thrashed, and this whole, it was a tie meme that the MSM is trying to sell now only gives the impression that McCain got the better of it, as opposed to President Bush’s first debates in00 and 04 which were really poor.

    I might offer a reason why most of us here thought McCain won so handily and thats because expectations were so low. Maybe as we look back in three days we will get a more even view of the debate, but I think by Monday, nationally this will be viewed favorably for McCain.

    My question to you is, where does this move the MI, PA, CO and VA polls (I personally think OH and FL are off the table)

  252. Polaris says:

    Lisab,

    The MSM has a lot less influence than they used to esp with post-debate spin. The Kossacks know that as well as I do which is why they are spamming online polls and other such things.

    In fact a lot of the MSM is borderline irrelevant. Not quite, but getting there because of the 24/7 newscycle and the reality of the ‘net.

    The fact is (and it’s really annoying in today’s climate) we won’t know what impact if any the debate had for three days.

    Personally I think what I am seeing is a restoration of some GOP enthusiasm which should translate into better paper numbers. The real numbers won’t have changed at all…that’s my prediction.

    As for suppressing turnout, I don’t see it. If the election is seems to be anywhere close (and the professional pollsters can only carry the MSM’s water for so long without destroying their reputations), then it will come out to a GOTV effort and given the real numbers, I am confident that Mac will win.

    -Polaris

  253. Polaris says:

    Vic,

    This debate won’t move the state polls for days and by then the VP debate will have happened. Look for movement in the national numbers, but even then it won’t be “real” movement.

    Basically, I don’t think there are actually many independants left for either candidate to get but this debate performance will regenerate some enthusiasm for those that support Mac and the national polls IMHO should show this in about three days or so.

    -Polaris

  254. Victrc says:

    Polaris

    Since the election is pretty much crystalized (and I agree with you on this I dont think very much of the nation is undecided) the base of each party is the real driver of the final outcome.

    I think, IMHO, that the VP debate takes on a bit more of an important role, or at least more important than it traditionally has (lets face it, if it had been important before Quayle’s performace would have devestated Bush I campaign.
    Back to the point, and Id like to get your opinion, how important is Palin’s performance next week. You know Biden will be out to trip her up, you know Gwen will be out to trip her up. Does the McCain campaign tell her to stop using the rehearsed stuff they have been guiding her to use, or do they let the real Palin loose, in which case I dont think
    Biden knows what hes in for.

    I really believe that she will (more than mccain tonight) go after Biden’s comments and try to make them stick on him.

    Your thoughts?

  255. Polaris says:

    Vic,

    I don’t think the VP debate will make much difference either unless something really interesting happens. If something interesting does happen (which I doubt), then it’s probably Gov. Palin hitting a home-run in the debate.

    Why? Because of the MSM attacks on her experience, intelligence, and honesty, the MSM expectations for Gov. Palin are dangerously low. As long as she doesn’t come in with a bloodsoaked hunting knife and skin a moose in front of the audiance and grunt, she will hold her own. (OK I exaggerate, but I think I’ve made my point). OTOH Sen. Biden is being billed as an experienced policy wonk when in fact he is incredibly prone to gaffes.

    Chances are, the VP debate won’t make any real difference either, but if it does, chances are Gov. Palin runs away with it because of the expectation gap.

    -Polaris

  256. Victrc says:

    To give you an idea (which you probably already have anyway) of how badly the MSM has distorted the truth about Palin, in a way as to affect people opinions, my mother called me today and asked me how I could support that woman who has people go out in helicopters to shoot wolves and then asks for their paws as souvineers.

    Its insane but it shows how scared they are of her. They used to make fun of Reagan and tell stories like that of him (I remember being young and my mom telling me how stupid and senile he was) becuase they were so afraid of him, and because they could never figure him out.

    It s hard for them to understand that someone can be a true conservative.

    BTW I was asking in an article to come out a question about my view of Bush’s conservatism (in order to label me a Bush clone btw() I responded that Bush was, and is not, a true conservative. Ended that line of questioning quick, and they moved on to other things.

  257. Jake Towson says:

    Look at Fox News folks

    84% McCain
    14% Obama

  258. Polaris says:

    Jake,

    It’s good buzz but as a poll it’s worthless because it’s a self-selecting online poll.

    -Polaris

  259. Marv says:

    Polaris,

    What are your expectations for Ras and Gallup?

    You’ve previously mentioned that you were in the USAF….me too, pilot type, 69-74, and Vietnam War. How about you, when were you in?

  260. Polaris says:

    Marv,

    I was in ESC weenie (later AF Intel Cmd) during the first gulf war. My permanant station was in Elmendorf. That’s all I really want to get into.

    As for Ras and Gallup, I expect little change in Gallup but a huge (O+11ish) sample rolls off tonight on Ras. I expect to see a large Mac move tomorrow morning.

    -Polaris

  261. lisab says:

    Marv & Polaris,

    my father was in the AF too. a scientist out of SAC during Korea. turned civilian but stayed with SAC out of Rome and Hanscom. he worked on radiation effects & EMP … now he works on solar radiation

    he’s the black sheep … he joined the AF

  262. Marv says:

    Hi liasb,

    Sounds like you joined another branch of the military.

    How about you, have you been keeping track of Ras and Gallup?

  263. Jake Towson says:

    How will this debate affect the swing states in the rust belt and mid west?

  264. Marcus says:

    Mediacurves on who won the debate:

    [b]Financial Recovery Plan[/b]
    =D- 87.16 % Obama, 12.84% McCain
    =I- 60.76% Obama, 39.24% McCain
    =R- 26.57 % Obama, 73.43% McCain

    [b]Economic Plans[/b]
    =D- 79.78% Obama, 20.22% McCain
    =I- 55.95% Obama, 44.05% McCain
    =R- 18.88% Obama, 71.12% McCain

    [b]Government Spending[/b]
    =D- 79.00% Obama, 21.00% McCain
    =I- 53.39% Obama, 46.61% McCain
    =R- 16.67% Obama, 83.33% McCain

    [b]Lessons Learned From The Iraq War[/b]
    =D- 81.91% Obama, 18.09% McCain
    =I- 59.52% Obama, 40.48% McCain
    =R- 17.17% Obama, 82.83% McCain

    [b]Sending More US Troops To Afghanistan[/b]
    =D- 81.63% Obama, 18.37% McCain
    =I- 56.86% Obama, 43.14% McCain
    =R- 22.00% Obama, 78.00% McCain

    [b]Threat of Iran[/b]
    =D- 84.48% Obama, 15.52% McCain
    =I- 61.82% Obama, 38.18% McCain
    =R- 15.00% Obama, 85.00% McCain

    [b]US Relationship With Russia[/b]
    =D- 80.21% Obama, 19.79% McCain
    =I- 66.67% Obama, 33.33% McCain
    =R- 19.15% Obama, 80.85% McCain

    [b]Likelihood of Another 9-11 Attack[/b]
    =D- 84.52% Obama, 15.48% McCain
    =I- 56.82% Obama, 43.18% McCain
    =R- 13.16% Obama, 86.84% McCain

    [b][u]Total Winner[/u][/b]
    =D- 92.77% Obama, 07.23% McCain
    =I- 61.11% Obama, 38.89% McCain
    =R- 10.26% Obama, 89.74% McCain

    http://mediacurves.com/

  265. Jeff S. says:

    My gut tells me indies will be split, Mac fired up his base a bit more and Obama’s base is feeling a tad more queasy. No major shifts.

  266. maelstrom says:

    Where is Salman Ibrahim and how much of investor’s money went to Obama?

  267. rdelbov says:

    To me McCain was the clear winner.

    Obama never answered McCain back on being ready to lead.

    To me it was not even close

  268. Jeff S. says:

    I saw it as a clear Mac win, too. However, by the time the media spins it, I think indies will be about split. Republicans didn’t want it to end, Dems were probably just hoping O to get through it with no major blubbering. That tells me Mac was the clear winner. My wife did make the comment that by citing past history on foriegn policy, Henry Kissinger, etc, Mac may have come across as “old” to some of the audience. I took it as reassuring that he had that much knowledge and experience.

  269. Stef says:

    I didn’t watch the debate but then I already have strong opinions and those tend to color my views pretty harshly.

    Honestly it sounds like a draw which is, since most pundits haven’t figured it out, a win for Obama because he is the unknown quantity to Middle America. They haven’t committed to him because they simply don’t trust him. Now whether he won, lost or drew by points becomes irrelevant because for them the trust gap is closed every time they see him hold his own in an unfiltered, unhandled, untelepromptered setting.

    This is borne out by the data from every single focus group I’ve seen. CNN, Luntz on Fox, Media Curves, NBC, CBS all had the Indys/Undecideds choosing Obama over then McCain.

    But this is pretty much what should have been expected. More importantly the debates in general are a red herring that is unlikely to play a major role in deciding the election.

    The undecideds not voting for McCain are not going to be swayed by debate style issues format… with McCain. Right now his candidacy hinges on selling the Sarah Palin pick as a non-disaster which is the narrative that is forming.

    She had a great first two weeks but the last two have been brutal and non-evangelical conservative loyalists are starting to abandon ship. His original game changer needs to step up and deliver in the VP debate and elsewhere. Odds are she will do better then in her first interviews but fall short of the “grand slam” that delivers the entire election.

    From there McCain then needs to keep control of the narrative with constant offense. You really can’t do this in debates without coming across as an ahole which is again why I don’t see the debates as being critical.

  270. messy says:

    #259. Remember the very first VP debate in 1976, where Bob Dole attacked the Democrats for “starting World War II”. It stopped Ford’s comeback flat. He might have won big time if not for that.

    Dole spent the next twenty years of his life making up for that.

  271. messy says:

    CNN Post Debate Poll: Obama 51%, McCain 38%

  272. Tim says:

    Once again, I think it was very clear that this Debate was about a draw. To draw any other conclusion would just be partisan bias.

    More importantly, overnight polling indicated that more respondants thought Obama won.

    All he had to do was break even. He did. I have seen him look worse. I have seen McCain look better.

  273. Jake Towson says:

    The Drudge poll has 255,921 voters now and it’s 67%-31% McCain.

  274. Brandon says:

    RAS Iowa
    Obama 51%
    McCain 43%

    Frankly, I was expecting worse.

  275. Brandon says:

    How reliable is overnight polling?

    Most of the East Coast was probably sleeping.

  276. Brandon says:

    But I agree, nobody gains anything from this. It was a wash.

  277. Hugh says:

    every time the polls show dem winning the debate. I cannot remember the last time they showed otherwise. Yet, we have won a few of them, such as the first debate between bush and gore. fist most polls include adults on this issue, not rv or lv. also, when they poll people who did not watch the post debate spin they alway poll higher for the rep than those that watch the talking heads. Winning a debate is about who actually over several days improved their position with those who are going to vote.

  278. Brandon says:

    RAS Tracking
    Obama 50%
    McCain 44%

    I’m really getting worried now.

  279. L TePaske says:

    From David Yepsen Des Moines Register–John McCain won.

  280. I’m not sure how much anyone gains from these debates. I think it far more likely to loose a debate then it ever is to win it. In other words, if you really screw up, like W did in the first debate, it can probably hurt you some. McCain seemed more in command of the issues, but Obama didn’t make any huge mistakes (although the bracelet line was teh ghey). So of course the MSM will spin it as a tie.

    However, I think the one thing that might show true reaction as the debate went on was the 11 point swing for McCain on Intrade. Intrade is not a good predictor, but it does a good job of measuring peoples reactions. Take it for what its worth.

  281. Wes says:

    Actually, Hugh, didn’t the media have to admit Bush trounced Gore in the 2000 debates? It was so patently obvious I can’t remember anyone saying otherwise.

  282. MDefl says:

    Messy,

    Those polls ALWAYS favor the Dem by large margins. The American people know better. Frankly, I don’t expect any movement from the polls on these debates. The movement will occur on and after 10/15 when the polls adjust their party ID’s to something that resembles reality and start to report LV only.

    On October 21 or 22 the msm will start to run variations of the following stories:

    Why can’t Obama close the deal?
    The polls are not an accurate indicator of what will happen this year.

    Trust me, that is coming in the near future. I can’t wait.

    Obama CAN win this election. I am not in dreamland. However, his path to victory is very difficult, to say the least. At minimum, he must win CO, NM, IA and retain NH to avoid an electoral tie. True, he wins in a tie but he would be entering the White House as a lame duck. HRC would be his biggest adversary again. He really needs VA or OH to go blue, which is not likely to happen. Those are the 2 red states that are really in play (FL is fools gold for the Dems).

    Mac, on the other hand, has a much easier path to victory. If he defends the 04 states and retains CO, he wins. He also has a chance in MI, PA, WI, MN and now WA and OR are at least giving BO heartburn in that he cannot ignore them. People underestimate how well Mac plays to the western part of the country and to the hispanic community which is being under polled for some reason.

    It is not impossible that BO could win. However, if I had to place a bet, I would still go with Mac.

  283. Hugh says:

    RAS is Obama +6 today. Not good and further evidence of how badly it hurt reps that there was no deal Thursday afternoon. I hope the reps in the house get more than a few of the earmarks removed, because they definitely have very badly hurt mccain. If we had a deal thursday night, mccains strategy would have worked brilliantly. As we know, mccains strategy to return to dc was a gamble, but in my view without doing it he was going to suffer mightly anyway.

    The big mistake mccain made was trying to postpone the debate. It was unnecessary from the get go.

    I wonder what it would be like for the reps in the house if they lose another 30 seats and have to deal with pres obama. I prefer sophists to ideologues and the house reps imho really hurt their party for what I will expect to be very little improvement in the bill.

  284. Frank says:

    Polaris,

    Please help me understand Rasmussen.

    Thanks

  285. Hugh says:

    Wes…I am working off of recall, but think the post debate polls showed it a draw, when in fact it was a blowout. Not because of what was said, but by gores behavior and attitude. It wasnt until the snl skit that it got pretty much cemented and the msm reflected the truth.

  286. MDefl says:

    Hugh,

    You are right. Not having a deal did hurt the R’s. What I don’t understand is why Pelosi and Reid would not just ram the bill through since they control congress. The D’s beat the R’s at politics on this one. Hoewever, the story will not have staying power since a deal will be signed. The D’s know they can’t overplay their hand on this one.

  287. I was talking about the Bush Kerry first debate.

  288. MDefl says:

    Gang,

    Mac is at his low point right now for a variety of reasons. Relax, have a cream soda. It is temporary. In 3 1/2 weeks, the stories you will be reading will be 100% different than todays.

    “Why Obama is having trouble closing the deal”. I could write these stories today and have the msm print them on 10/21 or 10/22. That is how obvious this is to me.

  289. MDefl says:

    Hi Bryan, how are you? BTW – As I recall, there was no blowout in 00. Gore just came off as extremely unlikable. Some things never change.

  290. The D’s want the R’s on board for political cover. If they pass the bill and the Rs vote against it, they have a great issue to run against, especially since this bill isn’t so popular.

  291. Hugh says:

    #290
    The dems were being smart. They knew that dragging things out a short while would help them. We would have done the same thing if the situation was reversed. I was actually surprised they opened the door for an agreement on thursday. The debate over this bill is not really between reps and dems it is between reps and reps. They played it well and we let the right wing of our party (of which I include myself) let principal stand in the way of victory. Sometimes that is fine, but like I said they are not going to get anymore than a little window dressing than what they would have been able to get on Thursday. We are over a bigger barrel today than we were on Thursday and the dems know it.

  292. Doing good MDelf, trying to keep my sanity during this election period.

  293. MDefl says:

    Hugh,

    I agree with you but the Dems cannot let it go on for very long or else they will risk being blamed. An agreement will be signed by tomorrow.

  294. Hugh says:

    293…I think that is what I was trying to say. I define winning a debate and gaining votes as a result of the debate. Isnt that the prize?

  295. tanda says:

    Brandon,

    I am with you.

    Big O sample fell on Ras and O still gained.

    I know I will get slammed, but McCain is falling apart. I hard weight all the polls and he has lost 5-6 points in 10 days on a hard weighted basis. I have all recent polls that provide sufficient internals in a spreadsheet, sample size of over 30,000, and Mac is now barely winning Indys after leading by 10%. His advantage with his base is eroding as well. Even adjusted to D+2.8, the average of last 5 presidential races, McCain is now down 2 and continuing to fall. If the turnout is D+4 or 5, he is down 3-4 and soon will be down more.

    Gallup has to Mac days falling, so it will get worse.

  296. MDefl says:

    Bryan,

    Hang in there. The msm is desperately trying to get it’s candidate elected. We need to be resolute. I have faith that America knows better.

  297. Maybe this is smart for the Ds, but this could easily backfire. Please check out this link from Volokh,

    http://volokh.com/posts/1222499614.shtml

    “I have read Dodd’s propsed statute and in some respects, it is far worse than has been reported. Senator Dodd has placed a loophole in the bill that is explicitly designed to siphon off tens or hundreds of billions of dollars to the Housing Trust Fund and the Capital Magnet Fund even if there are no net profits in the $700 billion venture.”

    The Rs need to slam the Ds that while there is a crisis going on, all the Ds want to do is add more crap to the bill. Even Drudge reported that the bill has grown from 3 pages long to multiple pages. The American people are not happy about this.

  298. MDefl says:

    Tanda,

    You need to relax! Keep in mind that Carter had a 15 point advantage over Ford in 76 and won by 2. Carter and Reagan were almost dead even at this point in the race in 80 and we know how that finished. In 92, Clinton had a high single to low double digit lead and won by 5.5% with the help of Ross Perot, who peeled financial cons away from Bush.

    Tracking this stuff in minute fashion is fine, but try not to become obsessed with it. Look back on 10/21 and, if Mac is done by 5 to 7, then you can hit the panic button. On 10/15, BHO must be up by a min of 5 to 7 to have a chance of winning. I never expected Mac to have a lead until the 3rd week of October.

  299. Hugh says:

    bryan…there is no explaining this complicated a bill through the msm to the american people. That is the problem. And there is little time. When the average american goes to take some money out of his money market fund and is told there is none to give him, because they cannot liquidate the assets fast enough to meet the demands he is going to panic and who is he going to blame? The republicans. I guarantee it. Also, I am telling you I have a very large client trying to liquidate millions in money market funds and they have been told they cannot have it. This is what is coming. And we think we can explain all this to the american public. I wish it were so.

  300. Sy says:

    Well, it is obvious McCain is down for now. But there is still plenty of time and there is so much flux. It is not hard to close a 4-6 pts lead in 5 weeks. It just take a 3 point swing to be tied. The race will stabilize.

  301. MDefl says:

    Hugh,

    That is why a deal will be signed. Reid and Pelosi, understand that if they keep this going for too long, it will spiral out of control. Sure, BHO could be elected but he would wind up with an economy in complete tatters. If they wait too long, a deal won’t help. The D’s, in control of everything at that point, will take the blame. Pelosi and Reid will lose control of congress in 10. They don’t want that, to be certain. This is a game of chicken that they don’t want to play for to long.

  302. Hugh says:

    Our base will begin to get depressed, their base is excited again. I blame the house reps for it. You cannot blame the dems in the house, they did what we expect from them and they outfoxed the house reps. I find it hard to believe that somehow Obama has kept his loons off the front page and in the background. While our right wing has undermined us at the critical time. I agree they are right, but fighting losing battles for the base is a mistake if we are going to end up with a socialist in the white house. It pains me to think of what he would do.

  303. MDefl says:

    I have a busy day ahead of me. Everyone, stay calm. This is far from over. As a matter of fact, I like our position.

  304. Hugh says:

    The damage is done so we will get our deal now. I am disgusted with the house reps, and think we will get nothing for their grandstanding.

  305. rdelbov says:

    Be of good cheer

    I think MAC won last night. Don’t let these polls get you down.

    I no more believe these polls today then I did last weekend

    Obama has not closed the deal.

  306. Howard Dean says:

    Kissinger repudiates Obama:

    Fact Check: Kissinger Defends McCain’s Iran Stance

    September 26, 2008 11:54 PM

    ABC News’ Kirit Radia Reports: Former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger came to the defense of longtime friend Sen. John McCain following Friday’s presidential debate saying he “would not recommend the next President of the United States engage in talks with Iran at the Presidential level.”

    “Senator McCain is right. I would not recommend the next President of the United States engage in talks with Iran at the Presidential level. My views on this issue are entirely compatible with the views of my friend Senator John McCain. We do not agree on everything, but we do agree that any negotiations with Iran must be geared to reality,” Kissinger said in statement issued by the McCain campaign.

  307. Sy says:

    Hugh,

    THAT deal was a poison pill. For crying out loud, 20% of the profit was going to ACORN. The Democrats control Congress, NOT the Republicans. They can pass it WITHOUT the Republicans.

  308. L TePaske says:

    The thing to remember is that it was President Bush [Republican] who brought this deal forward, not the Democrats, if he hadn’t the market would be tanking more and Pelosi and her ilk would be twiddling their thumbs. The House republicans may be balking but it is a Republican proposal.

  309. Sy says:

    Was Ras poll conducted before the debates finished?

  310. Howard Dean says:

    Any doubt CNN is in the TANK?

    Don’t you think their polls would be biased too?

    Let’s look at their debate poll:

    Poll interviews were conducted with 524 adult Americans who watched the debate and were conducted by telephone on September 26.

    Of the debate-watchers questioned in this poll, 41 percent of the respondents identified themselves as Democrats, 27 percent as Republicans and 30 percent as independents.

  311. Howard Dean says:

    Awww….

    Obama “won”!!!

    Adults!

    D +14 sample!!

  312. Howard Dean says:

    The Mac is back

    By ROGER SIMON | 9/26/08 11:52 PM EDT

    John McCain was very lucky that he decided to show up for the first presidential debate in Oxford, Miss., Friday night. Because he gave one of his strongest debate performances ever.

    While Barack Obama repeatedly tried to link McCain to the very unpopular George W. Bush, Bush’s name will not be on the ballot in November and McCain’s will.

    And McCain not only found a central theme but hit on it repeatedly. Obama is inexperienced, naive, and just doesn’t understand things, McCain said.

    Sure, McCain is a pretty old guy for a presidential candidate, but he showed the old guy did not mind mixing it up. He stood behind a lectern for 90 minutes without a break — you try that when you are 72 — and he not only gave as good as he got, he seemed to relish it more.

    At least twice after sharp attacks by McCain, Obama seemed to look to moderator Jim Lehrer for help, saying to Lehrer, “Let’s move on.”

    POLITICO

  313. rdelbov says:

    trash sample

    Paul Newman passed

    everyone needs to go buy some salad dressing.

    Great actor and a good guy

  314. Sharon says:

    I would like to get Polaris perpective today on possibility of McCain election. It’s not that I don’t think he is doing well it’s just that I wonder how many people really see he is. I have never seen a candidate have so much against him. If he does win it will be nothing short of a miracle.

  315. Howard Dean says:

    Biden: “Iraq working because General Petraeus did what Barack and I told him to do”

  316. Sharon says:

    I just hadden a sudden weakness all over at the thought of our country being turned over to O and the democrats. It was so apparent last night that he really has no knowledge of foreign affaris and just because we have not been attacked in this country since 9/11 does not mean it won’t happen once our guard is down. Beleive me if O is elected our guard will be down and he won’t have a clue what to do and neither will any of the other dems.

  317. Howard Dean says:

    If he does win it will be nothing short of a miracle.

    Comment by Sharon — 9/27/2008 @

    No.

    The election is in 5 weeks.

  318. Sy says:

    Howard,

    The thing about that is early voting already started in places like Virgina. Virgina is crucial for McCain. Then again, if McCain switch either MI or PA, it would not be a problem.

  319. Hugh says:

    sy…I agree with what you say. And you are assuming that if they came to a deal thursday that in writing the bill those things would not have been taken out of the bill. And that by not in concept agreeing to a deal they will get what they want now. I am suggesting, that they will likely get little for not agreeing in principal to a deal. In exchange they took mccain down the toilet.

  320. Sharon says:

    Howard
    I understand what you are saying. However, don’t you feel that there is so much stacked against him that no mortal person could overcome it? I felt so good after the debate last night and then started listening to all the talking heads, including FNC and hearing them say a tie or O won. Then I come here and see basically the same thing. I mean with this constant bombardment of bias don’t you think it will eventually convince people not to vote for Mac. Maybe I have fallen into the trap the media is trying to accomplish. Just having a depressing morning over it all.

  321. Jay says:

    Mdefl:

    I have to say, the “I’ve written the MSM’s articles for October, and they ask why Obama can’t close the deal” line is getting a bit tiresome.

    You don’t seem to understand the inherent gullibility of the MSM when it comes to polls. Unless the polls are tied–and given that the word I’m hearing outside the partisans and MSM is that McCain’s gimme debate was a tie (and he’s going to be savaged on SNL like Gore was), there’s no reason to believe they will be–then no MSM outlet is going to go out on a limb and say Obama can’t close the deal when he’s got a lead in the polls. Don’t forget, the last debate, the one in the period you’re talking about, will be the economy, and by overwhelming margins in almost every poll McCain loses that argument.

    Look, I don’t really want to admit it, but the perception of McCain on the one issue on everybody’s minds is beating out the reality of McCain’s prowess. You can’t argue at this point that McCain’s being seen as the loser on the economy is a fluke when every single poll mentions it. Yes, I know he’s got the better attitude and ideas, but that’s not getting through to people. Or, more accurately, the MSM refuses to let it through to our great frustration.

    And as for the GOTV campaign that Polaris keeps on mentioning it, I sincerely hope you’ve actually been visiting swing states to get a look at it before you say that. I’ve been giving weekends to McCain in Fredricksburg (1st CD), and we’re getting demolished here. I mean, this is outside the Beltway, red county territory, and the Obama folks are like a plague of frickin’ locusts down here, more or less 2 to 1 in both manpower and effort. EI don’t think it’s enough to flip it (right now), but this district even being close makes VA a nailbiter. What’s worse, is my colleagues in the 11th CD say Obama’s team has the 11th CD locked down.

    Look, folks, we’ve got to stop the head-in-the-clouds BSing, because as far as I can tell, that’s the same trap that the libtards fell into in 2004. This feeling that the people can’t possibly be that stupid, that everyhting’s hunkydory, is a game-killer. You keep on talking like that, and you start to belive it and make others believe it. All that does is make people sit back instead of getting up and doing something. So, please, stop all this talk about “if things go like they did in 2004, it’s a cakewalk” and “I can see the Obambi’s failing headlines now” crap. Morale boosting is good to a certain point, but you have to assume right now that you’re looking down the barrel of the gun, or else you’re not gonna see the gunman.

  322. Sy says:

    So, Battleground does not come out with any results today?

  323. bio mom says:

    I watched. Obama was very rude; kept interrupting McCain’s answers and talked over him. Smirked. Just like a punk. Very unattractive. He makes my skin crawl.

  324. Hugh says:

    who is more pathetic frank luntz or his stupid wishy washy panelists?

  325. Howard Dean says:

    Yes, early voting in VA has started.

    My guess is it’s trickling in.

    And those voting are the base of each party.

    There is a LONG way to go folks.

    A LONG way.

  326. Howard Dean says:

    I wonder how many Indies included Code Pink this time.

  327. Sy says:

    Jay,

    Dude, the majority of people here knows the situation well. We know McCain is down NOW. However, there is still 5 weeks left. I rather peaked with 1 week left than 5 weeks left. Things are not that dire. McCain can make up this ground easily. Elections can swing on a dime.

  328. Michael says:

    Thanks Jay for that deep insight on the election…now go away and take your pessimism elsewhere.

  329. eric says:

    Well, it sounds like Mac is toast. That’s what I’m hearing this AM from some. Mac performs well, wins the debate, and he’s finished. Come on people. Also, blaming the R’s in the house is a little harsh. They stood on principle, and will get a better bailout deal. The reason the polls have slipped for Mac is because the R brand is bad, and Bush even worse. The focus has been on them for a week, and that is what you are seeing. It’s mostly emotion, and emotion does not last. A slight up tick in D enthusiasm, and a tamping down of R enthusiasm, that’s what’s happening. It is not permenant. A deal will be done by midweek, and Mac can take some credit, and the race will be back on in earnest. This election has been all about the Obumbler from the beginning, and it still is. He has not closed the deal, and my guess is he will not. Gosh, if I want Repub bashing, I can go to Kos, but here?

  330. Brandon says:

    Biggest moves in RAS Internals:

    Obama now up 6 among Indies.

    Now leads for the first time among white women.

    Now up 17 among women, was only +14 yesterday.

  331. rdelbov says:

    There’s your samples that off on RAS

    right there

    It happens

  332. MDefl says:

    Jay,

    Is that the new talking point from your messiah? Give me a break. I have been saying all along that the election is going to be decided after 10/15. I have also stated (in this thread troll, if you can read back that far) that Obama can win. My head is not in the clouds at all. However, it is a mistake to believe these polls are an accurate reflection of reality given the unrealistic party ID advantage to D’s and most of the polls are rv not lv.

    Futhermore, as I have stated numerous times, the late deciders always break for the unknown candidate with 65 to 70% of the vote. Oh, and Reagan was NOT unknown in 80 btw. I am sure you were lining that up troll but you would be incorrect. Reagan had been Gov of the largest state in the country and had already run for Pres in 76. Save that logic for The Daily Kos.

    Paul Newman? Dang. I loved Slapshot, Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid and The Verdict.

  333. Tina says:

    Folks, some of you need to be relaxed. Obama lost the debate, and it was not even close. In addition, he clearly lied about Kissinger.

    I listed on the radio, and then I watched it later. The facial expressions were not good.

    Go to newsbusters and read what Chrissy Matthews has to say.

    When the liberals SAY its A TIE. THIS MEANS ITS A BIG WIN FOR MAC.

  334. rdelbov says:

    Guys don’t panic

    I said this six times on Friday

    Are the democrats sleeping well with Obama only +3 in polls in MI & PA

    Can you say democratic panic

    Local polls lag and that’s very true, but they can also tell where us the very same National polls were off.

    If on 09-23 & 09-24 Obama is only +3 in MI & PA he was not ahead +6 in National polls on those same days.

  335. L TePaske says:

    Worst case is a tie at 269 EV, probably Mac wins 274 or 278.

  336. Hugh says:

    Economic uncertainty drives women to democrats who promise more security. Forgeting the cost. I think the big swing of women to obama makes sense given this financial crisis. Perhaps in a few weeks we can get them back, but we have to think through what dynamic will do that. I am not sure what it is, beyond scandal or a debate disaster by Obama.

  337. MDefl says:

    Also, I know Paul Newman was a lib but he was a GREAT actor as well and I give him his due. You see, as Republicans, we are not mean-spirited by nature. That is part of our dilema. Contrast that with how Charlton Heston was treated when he passed and you will see what I am talking about.

  338. Tina says:

    aND there are plenty of OBama supporters, such as Chrisssy, that are upset with his performance. He spent 1/2 the time with uhs, ums, and the other 1/2 agreeing with MAC.

  339. MDefl says:

    I guess Jay was summoned home to mybarackobama.com for further programming.

  340. MDefl says:

    My question is this – did Keith Olbermann immediately have an Orga** afterwards.

  341. Howard Dean says:

    Palin has to impress next week.

  342. KeyBored says:

    Paul Newman dies at age 83. He was a favorite actor of mine and will be missed. My thoughts and prayers to his family.

    kb

  343. Tina says:

    Some at PMS were not happy with the Obumbler’s performance.

    I would not sweat these tracking polls. They will not be good for awhile, but all momentem is with MAC.

  344. L TePaske says:

    Remember the earmarks, you don’t cut spending by adding earmarks. Obama said he suspended those, he didn’t deny making them, they are still out there.PORK Whats that about lipstick?

  345. Tina says:

    This was a very odd moment:

    That inartful comeback will likely filter out through the political ether in the days ahead. What might not filter through our partisan press is that shortly after pointing out that, like John McCain, he sports a bracelet given to him by a military family, Barack Obama had to stop and look down find out the name of the soldier he’s honoring.

    That soldier is Ryan David Jopek. Barack Obama doesn’t appear to have known that fact.

    Here’s his complete line:

    “Jim, let me just make a point. I’ve got a bracelet too. From, Sergeant, uh, uh, from the mother of, uh, Sergeant, Ryan David Jopek.”

  346. Tina says:

    Its the equivalent to Bush – 41 Watch momemnt. I am sure the un-msm covered it.

  347. Howard Dean says:

    Obama also flipped on missile defense.

    He is on video opposing it.

    Biden flipped on coal Thursday.

    There is no accountability by the msm.

    The D’s can say what they want and change positions daily.

  348. Howard Dean says:

    Obama and Biden keep running right.

  349. Brandon says:

    RAS Louisiana
    McCain 55%
    Obama 40%

  350. Jay says:

    What the hell, MDefl? How am I a troll when I’m exhorting people to get off their butts and work for McCain? As far as I can tell, most everyone here is showing support via keyboard and precious little else. Have I attacked anyone? No, just pointed out that we’re suffering from the same problems that the libs did in 2000 and 2004. What I’m seeing here is *exactly* what my liberal friends were saying then. It’s also what I noticed a lot of normally dependable folks like Hugh Hewitt and Dean Barnett saying in 2006.

    Frankly, if I’m not allowed to point out the “Baghdad Bob” attitude that cost us the Senate and House two years ago as quite likely to happen this year, with the added bonus of being called a traitor to my party, I’m not sure why I even bothered to come to what seemed like a reasonable conservative website. If this is what the right-of-center folks have to deal with now, a Kos-esque purging of those who don’t bow to party propaganda, then yeah, I’m sorry I bothered to come here and actually do good for the campaign while maintaining a realist attitude.

    Idealism over realism from the left is what killed Gore and Kerry’s chances the last two times and what gave us Congress in 1994. That same willingness to refuse to listen to anyone not drinking the Kool-aid lost us Congress for at least 4 years running, and has the real possibility f happening this year.

    Perhaps I’ll come back fr some good analysis from people like Polaris, no thanks to the goons in the crowd that have adopted the worst of the Kossacks.

  351. Hugh says:

    hd..obama +5

  352. jones says:

    We need to relax. McCain did well last night. Obama looked awful. Why are we freaking out?

  353. Howard Dean says:

    Obama loses 2 points in HotLine poll.

    These polls are going in opposite directions.

    Obama does have the lead right now.

    Right now.

  354. Howard Dean says:

    Obama looked awful. Why are we freaking out?

    Comment by jones — 9/27/2008 @ 11:04 am

    Who is “we”? 🙂

  355. jones says:

    True. By we I mean the honest hedgehoggers.

    We are re-enacting Kaisserine Pass when we should be holding steady.

  356. KeyBored says:

    On the debate, it looked pretty much a draw to me – but that means Obama won. Obama appears to be leading now, so all he had to do was look presidential and hold his own against the more experienced John McCain. I think he did that last night.

    What was interesting to me is the contrast in personality and style. Obama appeared more congenial, calm, and cool. McCain appeared more angry and dismissive. How this translates into votes depends on the mood of the country. If Americans are looking for a shoot first and ask questions later president, then John McCain wins. If Americans are looking for more peace in the world, and are more open to reasoning with others, then Obama wins.

    kb

  357. Howard Dean says:

    RAS Louisiana
    McCain 55%
    Obama 40%

    Comment by Brandon

    It was 56-42 in 04.

  358. Hugh says:

    I did not see the debate, as I am on vacation with my wife and was at dinner. However, win or lose. Did obama look arrogant?

  359. MDefl says:

    OK Jay. I apologize. Frankly, I was warning everyone in 06 that disaster was ahead of us. My problem is that you attacked me as a polyanna without any knowledge of my history. I have posting on this board for almost 5 years and have been in battles with both D and R’s depending upon the circumstances.

    I also have studied past Presidential races and that is how I have come to the conclusions that I have. I have given $ to the Mac/Palin campaign. Perhaps, the next time you want to rip me, you can go back to 04 and see my predictions and 06 when I was the 1 sounding the alarm bell. Frankly, I am really not all that worried about Obama because it is a FACT that most of the late breakers will go towards Mac and that some of BO’s current support is soft.

    I apologize for calling you a troll.

  360. jones says:

    So are worst troll and most partisan honest hedgehogger agree it was a draw. If it were not an ass-whipping, they would say Obama won.

    Take a deep breath people.

  361. GeauxLSU says:

    I don’t get the gloom and doom. The Messiah should be winning by double digits with the nightly love fest. Anyone who watched the debate last night with any sense of neutrality, knows that McCain came off much more knowledgeable and skilled. Obama smirked and interrupted and finally begged “to move on” when he knew he was clearly losing the point. Polls change quickly. Many were saying that Obama would be up 15-20 points after the conventions….didn’t happen. This race is close, but I don’t understand why everyone is climbing on the ledges. In the Spring if we had known that McCain was with striking distance in PA, MI, MN, ME, NH, WI…..would you have believed it?

  362. Tina says:

    The Obama watch uh bracelet moment and the Kissinger gaffe will be used effectively in the next coupple of days.

    I really do not get Jay’s comments. What is the point again please?

  363. MDefl says:

    Hugh,

    Yes he did. On numerous occasions, he tried to talk over McCain. He also had a stupid smirk on his face for most of the debate.

  364. Howard Dean says:

    {{{{DRUDGE POLL}}}} WHO WON THE FIRST PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE?…

    MCCAIN
    68% 200,935
    OBAMA
    30% 89,087
    NEITHER
    2% 7,007

    Total Votes: 297,029

  365. MDefl says:

    I do not think the debate was a draw. Mac was the winner, hands down.

  366. jones says:

    Why has Obama not runany debate ads, why is McCain running debate ads. This is what this site was like on election day ’04.

    Relax, work for a victory and ignore the MSM and trolls.

  367. MDefl says:

    I can hear it now – that is just our Obama being Messiahical.

  368. Howard Dean says:

    Tina, Don’t forget the total of 8 times Obama said MAC was right.

  369. Tina says:

    I do not agree that it was a draw. While no knock out, I give it to MAC. He won it.

    Obama looked upset and angry – and it was visible on the tv.

    The worst moments are when he forgot the name of the solider’s bracelet and when he lied about Kissinger.

    There are other moments too.

    At best, it was a “tie” during the first 30 minutes of the discussion on economic. After that, there was a clear and convincing winner – MAC.

  370. Jay says:

    The point is: don’t get comfortable.

    Treat every state like we’re 10 points down, so we have have to work that much harder. Assume every poll is right, so we have that many more people to convince. Better to be prepared for an ambush than actually suffer one.

  371. greg says:

    McCain is going to lose b/c Obama is getting assists from everyone in the media, including the NRO who advocates throwing Palin off of the ticket. This gives material support to Obama’s message; and if they actually follow the advice, McCain would probably lose 40 states.

  372. MDefl says:

    Jones,

    Some people here (not all) are in complete panic mode. I can only imagine if this were 1980 and we had the internet. They would be convinced that Reagan was a goner.

    Again, this is no slam dunk. I get that. However, given everything that has been happening and a press corp who is openly rooting for Obama, the real question is why Obama is not leading by 15 points with more than 400 EV’s secured? The answer is quite simple – his support is very, very soft and some of it will go to Mac in the end along with the majority of late deciders.

  373. Hugh says:

    If Obama looked arrogant. He lost the debate.

  374. Bitterlaw says:

    We need to end the Bush-Obama economy. No bailout. Go McCain!

  375. Tina says:

    Yup HD, you are correct. Even Chrissy MAtthews was upset at the newsbusters site. NBC can now only go after how MAC pronounced A-mad-jihadi’s name (whoopy doo).

    Charlie Black for Team Mac also pointed this out.

    This is like the 2nd Gore Debate with Bush in 2000.

    I think the bracelet was disgusting.

    And with several leftists here admitting that it was a draw – means they know deep down who won.

  376. Tina says:

    I think somne of us here look at partisan tv like PMS And CNN for vindication of a MAC win. You wont get it.

  377. lion says:

    I think in the end McCain will win due to the Bradley Effect, but the House GOP is pissing me off.

    The only way to see where this is at is after the bailout is signed. If McCain goes up he will win.

  378. MDefl says:

    Jay,

    You are right. Although, at this point, we should assume that Mac is down slightly, not by 10 points.

    My 1 area of concern is the GOTV. I hope to hear more about their efforts soon. Trust me, the Dems are storing all the cigarrettes and wine they can get their hands on.

  379. GeauxLSU says:

    So…it’s McCain by 15 in Louisiana. I’m taking care of my business in my state. I wish you other people would do the same. 🙂

  380. Tina says:

    Ok – Jay, if you mean that – I agree. However, the loser Republican mentality based on hanging out with liberals and/or watching AL-CNN needs to end.

    Mac had a good night – a very good one by most accounts. It was a clear victory for him and everybody (even head Cheerled Tingles) said so. They won’t come out and say this but the Tea Leaves are there.

    Obama had a bad night.

  381. Hugh says:

    lion…you are so right about the house. See my prior posts.

  382. Gary Maxwell says:

    Here is the thing. this week did not go that well for McCain, rolling of the market and all the wall to wall doomsday talk frightened some people.

    He may yet get a plus out of the Paulson plan, but given that the debate last evening was a chance to change the subject back to the candidates and their positions and how they will deal with things as President.

    What time was the debate on 9 Eastern? So it finished at 10:30 Eastern?

    That is 7:30 West Coast. So Ras could theoretically got in a few west coasters in the survey but for the most part the debate will not show up until Saturday. If it takes a day or two to sink in and then the Paulson plan gets approved this weekend or Monday, you can guage both middle next week.

    A month is an eternity in a campaign. Being down in a couple polls after this unprecedented week is not a concern, and certainly no reason to panic or even fret.

  383. lion says:

    I think RAS is on a fine line right now.

    He is helping the MSM with its perception of Obama winning due to a bad sample.

    If RAS is wrong this year, he is the next Zogby.

  384. greg says:

    Also, since McCain is going to lose anyway, the GOP should vote “no” on the bail out bill. Their insurance bill is better (see Barone’s article). Make the Dems own this disaster bill (or the responsibility that is theirs for not passing something).

  385. MDefl says:

    The House Republicans are standing on principle. What an awful thing! In the end, the deal will be signed and it will be a better deal that what would have happened. Frankly, the public does not care. All they want to hear is the headline – deal is done. Then the issue begins to fade.

    Although, the R’s should be running commercials linking BO to Fannie and Freddie and Frank denying that Fannie was in trouble.

  386. Tina says:

    Who cares what one author writes about Palin at nro. They have their opinions and most say a clear MAC win.

    The Rs need to look and act like a winner not a loser because Wolfier or Andrea Mitchell spin it the other way.

  387. greg says:

    Tina: I guess he should have just called him After-Dinner-Jacket huh?

  388. Polaris says:

    Dissapointed in Ras. I really expected the opposite move today.

    About the trackers and polls, NONE of them will reflect the debate until Monday and we won’t know who “won” the debate until Monday either.

    tanda is right that some polls have shown a slight erosion in Mac’s position with a hard weight, but some have not.

    I still do not think the race has actually changed. Call me a pollyanna if you want, but I don’t think I am. We are being subjected to some of the most intensive headgames by the MSM/pollsters I have ever seen…and yes the house GOP didn’t help at least in the short run.

    About the debate I’ve already gave my technical impression, but I also though that Mac came across much better as a person. I still believe that.

    This is some furious spinning going on folks. Don’t buy into it.

    Heck I am going to give one other piece of advice which I will take myself.

    Chill and put this site and all poliical news away until Monday or Tuesday.

    Come back with a clear head.

    -Polaris

  389. Tina says:

    Exactly GM, I am even more proud of MAC after last night.

    And for the record, just in case a troll comes around, I was not for him at all in the Primary and was very critical – perhaps the most critical of him here.

    He has earned my vote.

  390. greg says:

    Tina: she is giving material support to Obama. The leftists in the MSM need much less than NRO attacking McCain to use against him.

  391. lion says:

    Hugh, you have GOP Reps from Safe seats in Red states who are making McCain look bad.

    These polls mean nothing until after the bailout.

    We say these doomsday scenario’s after Bush’s DUI in 2000. He still won.

  392. MDefl says:

    Comment by Greg

    Also, since McCain is going to lose anyway, the GOP should vote “no” on the bail out bill. Their insurance bill is better (see Barone’s article). Make the Dems own this disaster bill (or the responsibility that is theirs for not passing something).

    Greg, you are being much too megative, too early for a Presidential race. If this were the mids, I would agree that the GOP was in trouble. Presidential elections are a different animal. Just relax – we have a long way to go.

  393. greg says:

    TIna: Also, I’m not commenting on the debate (as I mentioned previously, I didn’t see/hear it). I do know that Time gave Obama an A- and McCain a B- (w/ Obama getting an A on substance). Granted, I could have predicted these grades prior to the debate anyway. Regardless, however, I don’t think that most people saw the debate and will be looking to these members of the Obama propaganda machine for their opinions on how it went.

  394. Tina says:

    And I even wrote two very critical pieces at another site about him that me and Mdefl post at – so he can vouch for that.

    The owner of the site was not very happy lets just say.

  395. lion says:

    McCain is still at 43 at Intrade, which is a lefty trading site.

    That is very good. Obama is down a little today.

    Until this bailout is done, the polls are garbage.

  396. greg says:

    MDefl: I don’t mean to sound overly negative. I do think that McCain can still win. I just don’t know if I care if it means having huge New Deal style programs. Also, I’m pissed about the baseless and vitriolic attacks on Palin.

  397. Tina says:

    Greg, my CA neighbor, you need to just relax and see. Give it a few days and see how it turns out.

    I missed the nro comment about Palin, so I do not even know who wrote it.

    I rather no bill than a bad bill for ACORN, etc.

  398. lion says:

    HEY GUYS!!!

    If the media is so relevant, why did Bush win in 2000 and 2004?

    Screw the MSM.

  399. greg says:

    Tina: typically, I feel the same way you do about the pols. I guess I wish I’d seen the debate so I could have your enthusiasm.

  400. Howard Dean says:

    Who cares what grade TIME gave?

    They are in the TANK and everyone knows it.

  401. lion says:

    I am sorry but McCain needs to go negative on Obama at this point.

    He tried to be nice, and the media has backstabbed McCain.

    I believe McCain has nothing to lose but let the 527’s destroy Obama people.

  402. Tina says:

    Obama did look like he was going to cry at some times with some of his facial expressions. In addition, this wMore than one person noticed that Obama repeatedly referred to McCain as “John.” It seems that Obama has picked up this bad habit from his running mate.

    During the primaries the RNC did research and found that Hillary gained sympathy from listeners when her opponent called her by her first name instead of “Senator Clinton.” They heard it a sign of disrespect. Biden regularly refers to McCain as “John” often following the words, “my friend.” (With friends like these…)

    It’s a small, but noticeable, tick and it sounds patronizing when Biden does it. “Folks” (to use another favorite politician’s tick) noticed that Obama now does it, too.as bad:

  403. greg says:

    HD: I realize that. I don’t know why I continue to be disappointed in these outlets of the Obama Machine formerly known as the free press.

  404. lion says:

    400. You are fine. It is tough to see RAS at 50 for Obama on a Saturday.

    But try to remember how you felt when these things happened.

    1. Bush DUI 2000
    2. Rathergate
    3. Exit Polls 2004.

    We have been down before, McCain will win.

  405. jones says:

    Did you see the facial expressions as they walked to their spouses?

    That said it all.

  406. Tina says:

    Greg, I am sure that you can catch a replay somewhere, such as CSPAN. Even Kaus gives the victory to MAC, I believe he writes for Slate and is one of their better journalists.

  407. Tina says:

    Howard Dean, I am shocked at the Drudge Voter Winner # – I know the Obamabots flock to those kind of Instant Vote Sites.

  408. eric says:

    Time? Time??? Jeez, if Obumbler admitted that he was Muslim and his daddy was a terrorist working with Ayres, they still would have said he won. Give me a freakin break. Listen, we have seen and heard it all before. The MSM NEVER will give a Repub kudos for anything. Can you give me an example? I’m waiting…They are in the tank, you know it, I know, and they know it. What we are seeing right now with the #’s is emotion, and it is mostly indies and specifically white women. It will not last.

  409. Howard Dean says:

    Signs of liberty

    Why is the University of Mary Washington inhibiting free speech at today’s Obama-Biden rally?

    Date published: 9/27/2008

    NOT ALL COUNTRIES guarantee their citizens the right to virtually unbridled freedom of speech. The United States does. Would someone please tell the campaign of Sen. Barack Obama? And the dozing guardians of liberty at the University of Mary Washington?

    Mr. Obama, the Democratic nominee for president, is scheduled to speak at a rally at the university today. The public is invited to this forum, on property it, the public, owns. However, signs and banners will not be allowed, according to the organizers and compliant campus officials. Suddenly, UMW is a First Amendment-Free, or at least a First Amendment-Crippled, Zone, subject to the self-serving preferences of politicos.

    Fredricksburg.com

  410. greg says:

    Tina: I’m sure I could, but I’m not sure that it would be worth the pain that it causes me to watch Obama speak 😉

  411. KeyBored says:

    If McCain loses to Obama, I think a major factor will be Sarah Palin. She has become such a huge embarrassment, now seen as inept on most issues, and was obviously chosen for political reasons – making John McCain’s “Country First” slogan look hypocritical. Her choice as VP reflects poorly on McCain’s judgment and highlights his impulsive temperament.

    kb

  412. Howard Dean says:

    It’s no accident that Obama is holding a campus rally.

    He needs the stoodints to turn out in record numbers.

  413. Tina says:

    Greg that’s fair enough but just look at how the Obumbler took it during the economic portion of the debate – like a spoiled brat that wanted to take all of his marles away.

    The foreign policy part – O was largely incoherenet- forgot the name of the solider’s bracelet – looked down – and mumbled and stumbled though most of it.

  414. Tina says:

    The Democrats could have chosen Hillary and walked away with this race. They went for the political pick – youth and inexperience.

    You can just see how Obama never had a sserious debate before in his life.

    Uh, um, what is the solder’s name.

  415. lion says:

    Keybored did you got to College?

    Your writing is awful?

    Got grammar skills?

  416. Tina says:

    How about a new thread?

  417. McCain came off stronger on the radio.

    I fear this may be seen like the 1960 kennedy-nixon debate- where nixon clearly won, but his demeanor killed him with television viewers.

    I hope the town hall really lets McCain shine- there were moments of that tonight (when he b-slapped Obama on Iran)…hopefully palin holds her own or gets Biden to say something incredibly stupid (more stupid than telling a wheelchair-bound man to “stand up!”)

  418. lion says:

    TANDA, the day McCain and Obama were tied 46 to 46 this week, you predicted Obama up 7% that day.

    How are you a expert?

  419. MDefl says:

    KB,

    Please. Your desperation is showing. Palin is going to cream Biden. I put the over/under on Biden’s major gaffes at 4. I am probably being too nice.

    Oh, and thank you to the msm for setting expectations for Palin at an incredibly low level. They made the same mistake at the convention. Good work libs!

  420. lion says:

    Tanda you know nothing my friend.

    Gore was up in October 2004, and many Pubbies thought Bush was toast after the debates.

    The Bradley Effect does not care about polling.

  421. Howard Dean says:

    Palin does not have the experience or knowledge base that Biden has.

    However, she can force him into a major gaffe rather easily.

    She should also jab hard at his major flip flops.

    And she should dominate on energy issues.

  422. phyl says:

    I love the commentary here from the regular posters even though I mostly lurk. One thing I picked up is that polls are backwards looking, so dips in McCain support in them now could be offset by gains in a few days. This week has been roiled by the economic crisis so his support did take a hit.

    I’m concerned about what I read about the GOTV effort. I remember that the Republican GOTV effort in previous elections has been exemplary. Is that not the case anymore? On the other hand, in the past 2 elections, I haven’t seen republican voters as fired up to vote as in this one. Sarah Palin is a major motivation to vote for many. John McCain certainly came through for them yesterday in a big way as well. So maybe this, plus the PUMA’s, will offset any weaknesses in GOTV campaigns.

  423. lion says:

    Tanda are you still hiding?

    Admit your flub on Gallup this week.

    You know as much as anyone here.

  424. Howard Dean says:

    Can’t wait for the Nielsen ratings later.

    I hope at least 60 million watched.

  425. KeyBored says:

    Lion

    I didn’t know grammar was so important here. I’ll try my best to meet your expectations.

    kb

  426. Tina says:

    Biden is arrogant and plain dumb. He can be forced into making a lot of errors.

    Do not underestimate Palin – see what she did to Murkowski and the Democrat Governor – knowles (former Governor).

  427. lion says:

    KB, not just grammar, but your intelligence.

    You are an embarrasment to this board.

    Is your other name HARRY?

  428. lion says:

    Tanda only posts when there is bad news.

    Troll

  429. Howard Dean says:

    phyl, What have you read about the GOP GOTV?

    Our GOTV is Palin’s selection and talk radio, which has over 50 million listeners per week.

    That is not the official GOTV but it is HUGE.

    When the base is fired up, it comes out.

    The base is FIRED up.

  430. Tina says:

    And see how the spin is from the Obamabots:

    Its a tie

    To now Palin better watch out – she needs to be dropped from the ticket – its a political choice.

    Biden was a political choice who is dumber than a box of rocks.

  431. MDefl says:

    Biden, “In 1798 the country was concerned about the Alien-Sedition Act. President Adams went on TV and calmed a panicked nation”.

  432. Howard Dean says:

    lion, KB is not harry.

    But he should be ignored like harry.

    Ignore him.

  433. Tina says:

    On the radio, it appears that the uhs, ums, uhs, were a signfificant part of Obama’s performance – especially in the fp section.

    Watching it on tv, however, I saw how OBama looked like a spoiled brat – angry child – in the ep and fp sections of the debate. The facial expressions, looking down at the bracelet, the gaffe with Kissinger, the inability to even hold a candle for most of the debate are all alarming.

  434. MDefl says:

    There is no doubt that Obama lost since the msm is trying to move to the recycled, “Palin should be dropped” line of attack. They know that Palin could be a major reason why McCain could win and it is driving them insane.

  435. Tina says:

    I was very surprised that Obama would even resort to those kind of mean facial remarks.

  436. KeyBored says:

    “lion, KB is not harry.”

    Well, I shaved this morning.

    kb

  437. Tina says:

    They have PDS – why would he even remove her as a VP nomination, Mdefl. You are right as usual.

    So, we got its a tie yesterday, to Palin should be dropped today.

  438. KeyBored says:

    Tia=na

    I’m glad you watched it. Didn’t you think McCain looked angry?

    kb

  439. KeyBored says:

    yikes, sorry about typo

    kb

  440. Howard Dean says:

    In 2006 the base had no reason to turn out.

    And lot’s of cons were depressed by the msm over the Foley scandal.

    Go back and look at the margin of victories for Tester, Webb and McCaskill (SP?).

    VERY slim.

    Also, check the margin of victories for numerous House seats.

    It will become CLEAR why the msm needs to depress the R base.

    They are nervous.

  441. phyl says:

    HD,

    Jay, the poster above, was talking about GOTV in VA and his points concerned me. You reassure me though. The Dems I have heard have a strong GOTV this year and I hope that Reps have an equally strong or stronger GOTV. However the enthusiasm I see in Rep voters this year is the highest I have witnessed in the last 2 elections so this will turn the tide to McCain-Palin imo.

  442. Tina says:

    Nope, I thought Obama was clearly angered, frustrated, and at the end after the debate, his walk gave it away.

    A big nite for MAC.

  443. Howard Dean says:

    Obama returned to the campaign trail Saturday, while McCain returned to Washington.

    AP

  444. Howard Dean says:

    phyl, I agree the D’s will have a very good ground game.

    Better than 04, so we better come out strong.

  445. KeyBored says:

    Howard Dean

    2006 was just the beginning of a leftward turn imo. You can thank George Bush for that. If Barack Obama is elected president as most polls are indicating, and his presidency is successful, then Democrats will be in power for a long time.

    kb

  446. phyl says:

    HD,

    Agreed. Some of those bright red states are trending purple in this election and this is worrisome. GOTV is critical.

  447. Bitterlaw says:

    KB – Palin is such a huge embarassment that last night she packed a bar with 500 Republican supporters who stood in line to meet her – in Philadelphia. There are only about 500 Republicans in Philadelphia so I would say she is rocking the base.

  448. jones says:

    Tina,

    do you mean Sgt Ummm, who gave his life for uh, at, daaaah, in the momenteous Battle of ohh.

  449. maxalvis says:

    KB,

    If the country is turning left why is Obama turning right? He flipped on missile defense, taxes, well he has flipped on about everything, but all to the right.

    If he’s elected? If he’s successful? If I had size, speed and talent I’d be in the NFL.

  450. jones says:

    PLEASE DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS.

  451. Phil says:

    Knowing what I know about the nightly numbers, I am stunned at the RAS number this morning. It’s a cold splash of water to the face.

    I’m not going to say anything else except to ask again, where are the Wright and Ayers ads??? When they are pulled out at the last minute it will just be brushed off as desperation.

    I expect the MSM to give Obama a pass on that, but never in a million years did I think the McCain people would.

  452. Phil says:

    I’m not even going to bother with the internals with Rasmussen this morning.

    I don’t want to see them.

  453. KeyBored says:

    Bitterlaw

    Palin does draw crowds, and she has helped McCain’s campaign, but her appeal is fading as realty sets in. Many Republicans are not happy about Palin.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/26/AR2008092603268.html

    http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,24291632-5012748,00.html

    kb

  454. Brandon says:

    Phil, yeah you don’t want to see them.

  455. KeyBored says:

    maxalvis

    Obama is turning to the center as most do in the general.

    kb

  456. KeyBored says:

    maxalvis

    I’m a realist, so while I think Obama will win due to trends and current polls, I’m not going to blatantly claim Obama will win, Obama will crush Mac, and so forth. Republicans have dominated politics for decades, and are masters of what I believe are negative and deceptive ads. Despite how much Americans want change, and know they will do better economically with the Democrats, they are easily distracted.

    kb

  457. Houston says:

    I’m getting close to the ledge guys….

  458. Howard Dean says:

    Gallup

    O +5

  459. rdelbov says:

    McCain started back last night

    forget the current polls

    look at the internals

    McCain is still +3

  460. Brandon says:

    Gallup Tracking
    Obama 49%(+1)
    McCain 44%(-1)

  461. Brandon says:

    Research 2000 SC
    McCain 54%
    Obama 39%

  462. KeyBored says:

    Democratic Registration Far Outpacing GOP In Multiple Battleground States

    http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/09/in_multiple_key_battleground_s.php

    kb

  463. Houston says:

    I’m really depressed right now. Is it over?

  464. Howard Dean says:

    CAn’t wait for those God Damn America ads to start rolling!

    Is there a Whitey tape? Is there?

    Are there going to be Farrakhan/Obama tapes??

    I’m sleeping comfortably at night, are you?

  465. Brandon says:

    RAS LA Senate
    Landrieu 54%
    Kennedy 41%

  466. Howard Dean says:

    I’m really depressed right now. Is it over?

    Comment by Houston — 9/27/2008

    Yes, Houston it is over.

    Focus on the baseball blogs.

    Ok?

  467. Howard Dean says:

    Wow, is Kennedy even trying?

  468. bio mom says:

    Obama did not look presidential last night. He was flustered, rude, arrogant. McCain was calm. So anybody here who is trying to say McCain’s TV look was a negative is a flat out liar. I have watched Obama’s body language after many debates and forums. He always leaves the podium with a smile and glad hands everyone. Not last night. He was very upset. He went to his wife with NO smmile on his face and seemed to me to want to leave the stage as fast as possible. I was pleased with that because one of the things I cringe at most is that phoney big white toothed smile of his and of Biden.

  469. rdelbov says:

    Get off those ledges folks

    +3 MI & +3 PA

    registration numbers are in many ways looking better for the GOP in 2008 then in 2004.

    Big Mac is rolling

  470. KeyBored says:

    Houston, we have a problem.

    kb

  471. gnasher says:

    Speculation is now circulating throughout the internet that McCain uttered “horseshi*t” when Obama said he wouldn’t meet with Spain. It looks like he did actually say it… go 4:20 into this video…

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/26909249#26909711

  472. Sy says:

    Guys, there is still 5 weeks left. Most presidential races close as the election nears. This one will too.

  473. jones says:

    Gnasher, that is speculation in the left wing blogosphere.

  474. Howard Dean says:

    Msnbc?

    Well, I’ll need to hear from the NYT before I’ll believe it!

  475. rdelbov says:

    Kennedy needs to finish fast, but he is closer then 13 points

    I agree that Obami did not look Presidential

  476. Naomi says:

    Hello, Hello, why are a lot you letting the MSM and the lousy polling internals lie to most of you. Mac is leading. He won the debates.

    we are stronger than this.

  477. KeyBored says:

    bio mom

    What you saw as rude and arrogant most others saw as assertiveness and confidence. Perhaps you want McCain to win so badly that you see anyone questioning him as arrogant and rude.

    Take a more objective look and you’ll see that McCain was more angry and dismissive, while Obama was more congenial – several times agreeing with McCain.

    kb

  478. Naomi is Brin says:

    Oops…I posted under my alter ego. Naomi would have said something like Barack needs to use softer colored ties. His wife needs to look at wearing flats with earth tone colors.

  479. bio mom says:

    Obama is quite a liar and dissembler. That is why a response to one of his lies is not out of order. I think if you watched a split screen of the debate with the sound off you would notice what an arrogant jerk Obama is.

  480. Hugh says:

    kb…the dems need to increase new registration over reps every cycle. As voter age, they turn more rep, they need better registration drives just to keep up.

  481. bio mom says:

    No keybored. That won’t work. Even Juan Williams said the same thing on the after debate commentary.

  482. Brin says:

    Obama didn’t come across as arrogant to me but as guy getting schooled on Pakistan and foreign relations.

  483. rdelbov says:

    I agree 100% McCain won the debate.

    Obami will set well in people’s minds after this debate. It may take a few days, but people will rally to Mac

  484. Dylan says:

    What the hell is going on here? Does anybody on this site really think that the average American’s vote is influenced by who the MSM tells them won the debate. Listen, I know Americans get a wrap for being stupid (knowledge of geography, world history, etc.) but you CANNOT convince me that the MSM is systematically able to force people to vote for a given candidate.

    The peeps saw what they saw and they don’t need the MSM to filter it for them. McCain objectively looked better than Obama, sounded better than Obama, and despite what the MSM tries to sell, the folks can think for themselves.

    There is just too much pablum being bantered about now.

  485. KeyBored says:

    gnasher 476

    “Speculation is now circulating throughout the internet that McCain uttered “horseshi*t” when Obama said he wouldn’t meet with Spain”

    LOL! He did, absolutely!

    kb

  486. KeyBored says:

    But of course, McCain was calm…

    kb

  487. Dylan says:

    Additionally, does anyone truly believe that the MSM’s assesment of how Sarah Palin did in Segment THree of her interview with Couric is going to (a) cause more people to vote for Obama; (b) cause McCain to replace her on the ticket; or (c) Cause Evangelicals or other far right voters to sit out/vote for O? Not.Gonna.Happen.

    Hey listen, i don’t know who expected this election to be a cake walk, but people need to get a hold of themselves. There’s a good reason, McGovern, Mondale, Dukakis, Gore and Kerry did not become president. Northern elitists or far left ideologues do not win presidential elections in this country. But things have changed this time around, you say? No, they have not. It’s never “different this time.”

  488. gnasher says:

    #479 Howard Dean…

    LOL! You’re letting your bias show- I know the VIDEO was to an MSNBC site, but it’s friggin’ video for chrissakes! Whattya think, they used puppets?

  489. jones says:

    No, it merely show nothing. Only moonbats dream it is there.

  490. rdelbov says:

    Does anyone know where McCain is campaigning next?

  491. gnasher says:

    #489 Dylan-

    The MSM has largely been calling it a tie. It’s the polling of the VIEWERS that is claiming an Obama win. If anything, the MSM is biased toward McCain in assessing this debate!

  492. Bitterlaw says:

    Democratic Registration Far Outpacing GOP In Multiple Battleground States
    -kb

    The Democrats alays register more voters. Republicans only register living American citizens.

    Do you have any more anti-Palin posts from unbiased sources like the Washington post? That is as ridiculous as me posting an op-ed piece by Sean Hannity about Obama and claiming it is objective.

  493. KeyBored says:

    gnasher

    good one.

    kb

  494. Hugh says:

    if mccain said horse…. it only helps him. who cares

  495. victrc says:

    if he did good for him Obama (I won’t use senator anymore since he refused to acknowledge anyones given elected title) is a flat out liar. He doesn’t
    Mislead or misspeak he lies. He could care less about the troops as was evident by his inability to remember the name of the soldier which was written on his bracelet

    Additionally he had to agree with senator McCain because he was wrong, it mistaken but flat out wrong on so many issues.

    I’m not one to utter this person would be a disaster that person would be a disaster, it I feel Obama will be wrong for this country in so many ways. He will be weak and indecisive in the eyes of our enemies and combined with a far left leanin congress will institute a growth in government that we haven’t seen. Since fdr. KB yiu will disagree, or may desire this outcome, but I believe that four years of unchecked Obama will result in the US resembling the EU of today than the USA of the Reagan years.

    God help us

  496. rdelbov says:

    Bitterlaw

    KB forgot that he posted that article several weeks ago , a month ago and two months ago. In fact he first posted an article about voter registration back in April for the PA primary.

    We corrected all the numbers back then so why bother correcting all these registration numbers again.

    Totally pointless.

    I can only assume the Obami folks are reruning the same articles for their updates.

  497. Dylan says:

    #496 Same difference. the peeps don’t need to hear from VIEWERS selected by god knows what criteria to determine who “won the debate.” My bigger point here is that there is/seems to be sidespread sentiment on this board that McCain “objectively” won but that this fact is irrelevant because of (a) MSM spin that it was a tie or whatever or (b)or because VIEWERS on some channels who were given some goofy dial to track teh debate in real time felt Obama was superior.

    People are at teh end of the day going to vote with who they feel comfortable with–it is not going to be Student Body President Obama. (and btw, my conclusion has nothing to do with the supposed “Bradley effect.”

  498. Dylan says:

    #497 People are on crack to think that merely registering a new voter at a registration drive equates to that person voting on election day. not gonna happen. And “this time is different” is never different.

  499. Sharon says:

    Taking Polaris advice and giving myself a break from tv and this site until Monday.

    kb….It will be hard not reading your fantasy posts. Everytime I think you can’t get any more bias and deceitful you always surprise me. Guess it really is the only thing you have to hang onto now that your little boy has basically shot himself in the foot and lost the election.

  500. victrc says:

    OMG I said God how could I be so insensitive

  501. jones says:

    Anybody see NC’s greg little’s TD run vs Miami. The guy pushed 7 Hurricanes 7 yards, at least.

    Wow.

  502. CambridgeRep says:

    #504

    Problems is that a HUGE percentage of those “new” registrations are actually 1) people who moved or 2) will be thrown out by Secs of State, because they are flawed.

    It’s the height of irresponsibility for the DSM (Democratic-Stream Media) to report totals ACORN and MoveOn give them as gospel. These groups pay people just to collect forms. It’s insanity.

    That said, the Dems have a much-improved GOTV this year.

  503. McCain was just calling a spade a spade (racist!). What Obama said was horsebleep so he called him on it. I don’t see anything wrong with that.

  504. Brandon says:

    McCain is in Ohio today rdelbov.

  505. CambridgeRep says:

    Btw, the fact that KB of all people is calling the debate a “wash” and is dodging the issue by bringing up Palin now makes me 100% certain that McCain won.

  506. rdelbov says:

    Dylan

    we chop and dice these silly voter registration posts every few weeks, but since you mentioned

    1. Every name change/address change is a new voter. So these waves of millions of new voters actually is quite small

    2. Democratic organziations are paying people to register so we are getting a wave of new democrats who are actually just the old ones getting re-registered. Often at the same address. Of course if you register as Tamika A. Jones and then re-register as Tamika Abkela Jones that’s a new registration

  507. CambridgeRep says:

    I haven’t seen much commentary on Lehrer’s job. How do people think he did?

    I admired him for pushing the candidates to discuss what will need to get cut–both dodged this, but Obama did so particularly egregiously–but most of his questions were things a 4th grader could’ve written. He made this huge deal about how the candidates didn’t see the questions beforehand. And then he throws them curveballs like, “Senator, what do you think about Iran? Senator, what is your opinion on Russia?”

    Wow. I bet neither side in a million years had prepared for those!

    Of course you’re not going to have soundbites when the questions are deadly generic.

  508. KeyBored says:

    CambridgeRep

    True, some reg forms may be flawed, some new voters may not vote, but most will vote – especially in this election where dem enthusiasm is high.

    There is an irony in reps making fun of Obama as a community organizer, because he’s been using those skills to register all those new voters.

    kb

  509. Hugh says:

    Kb…that is truly a ridiculous statement that Obama is using his community organizer skills to register voters. Pleeezzz. That statement is beneath you.

  510. CambridgeRep says:

    Finally, my gut tells me that McCain was microtargeting last night. He was clearly trying to further soften Obama’s support among Jews (might suggest that FL isn’t quite as rock solid as we hope) and veterans (crucial in both FL and VA).

    I’m not sure he did himself any favors in NV by talking so much about nuclear energy.

    McCain just seemed to have more of a strategy last night. The results might not show up in national polls very well. Obama’s strategy was to say “Bush sucks.” And to point out that he, too, has a bracelet.

    Finally, can you imagine what the MSM would have said had McCain gotten Obama’s name wrong?! Didn’t Obama call him “Jim” or “Bob” at some point? (Methinks he should’ve kept calling him “George.”)

  511. Dylan says:

    512 I hear ya. I was more commenting on the “this time its different” mantra being bantered around, as if there was some unique quality to the 2008 voter registration drives that subsumes that inherent “bogusness” of the stats. Basically, all I am hearing from the liberal bubble is that the Dem GOTV operation this year is unlike anything the GOP has ever been able to facilitate on their best day in the past, coupled with the incredible energy of young people and disenchanted folk who are literally going to overwhelm polling places on 11/4.

    I just think it is hooey. That said, I do worry about rampant fraud. Most Secretary of State/Voter registrar offices are underwhlemed to deal with a proper vetting of the new voter rolls. I really think we need to go to a National ID system (but now I am going to be strung up as being a facist)

  512. CambridgeRep says:

    #515–

    No. I think the evidence would suggest that most of those new registrants will NOT vote. That’s because most of them aren’t real distinct people.

    If ACORN and MoveOn were really concerned with registering new voters, I think they’d institute some kind of quality control. Perhaps there’s some way to see if the form later on gets rejected because it’s fraudulent, or a double, or there’s no signature, etc. However, they’re mainly just interested in running up big numbers to get attention. Many Secs of State are absolutely overwhelmed by the number of bad registrations. We’re talking in the hundreds of thousands across the country.

  513. rdelbov says:

    Nothing is beneath KB -untruths and distortions are his mode of operation

  514. CambridgeRep says:

    Wonder if we’ll start seeing on Tuesday and Wednesdays stories about what a “master debater” Sarah Palin was in her gubernatorial race in 2006. Then, immediately after Thursday’s debate, commentator after commentator will say, “Wow…she really performed below expectations, didn’t she?!”

  515. KeyBored says:

    Hugh

    I don’t think so. A big effort in his campaign is voter registration and generating voter enthusiasm. Staff are trained to organize voter registration drives, and develop community events to generate enthusiasm.

    kb

  516. KeyBored says:

    rdelbov

    You’re attacks on me are getting quite old. Why don’t you give it a rest.

    If you find something I say objectionable or in error, then by all means call me on it. I will try to correct and apologize if necessary.

    kb

  517. rdelbov says:

    I have done it numerous times and you always find it a good time to leave.

  518. Hugh says:

    oh yeah and obama is directing it right kb

  519. KeyBored says:

    Hugh

    Well, it’s his campaign. He is overseeing it.

    kb

  520. Greg from MD says:

    Has anybody seen if the tv ratings for last night have been released? I’m guessing they were not that great. Seems like a lot of people I’ve talked to did not watch.

  521. rdelbov says:

    Hugh and others

    you have to realize that KB is not interested in debating your points. He posts his DNC memos and moves on.

    If anyone here puts a post up with original thoughts he never responds to it.

    Unless ATX , Cory and Tim who actually debate and discuss what you post.

  522. KeyBored says:

    rdelbov

    Why so hostile. Certainly there is room for another blowhard here.

    kb

  523. DrJay says:

    kb and gnasher. He said “course not”. Watch it again… that’s why Obama mimics him with “course not” just afterwards at the 5 minute mark. Get a life…

  524. Howard Dean says:

    The Drudge poll has over 353,000 votes and Mac is at 68%.

    Of course this isn’t scientific at all.

    But it’s about perception and millions of people hit Drudge’s site.

  525. Howard Dean says:

    the MSM is biased toward McCain in assessing this debate!

    Comment by gnasher — 9/27/2008 @ 1:37 p

    You are monumentally clueless.

    Frankly, you should be embarrassed by that assertion.

  526. chuck says:

    Folks, we better get out there and work hard — last night did not go well for us at all.

    Luckily, we’ve got Palin next week, and she will pick Biden apart, just like she did Katie Couric.

  527. maelstrom says:

    kb will be gone Nov 5.

  528. Howard Dean says:

    New Mac ad slams Obama for voting to cut troop funding:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55Kc9TR-Rbk

  529. Dylan says:

    “I am not sure who won the debate–can someone please tell me or direct me to some website or blog that will enlighten me?” Oh, Drudge Tells Me McCain won. Wait, CNN tells me Obama won. I am a robot–must be told what . . .to . . . do.

    This is total insanity. We have become a nation of sheep. Just herded into oblivion.

  530. Howard Dean says:

    chuck, run along troll.

  531. Dylan says:

    #535 On what basis did last night “not go well for us?”

  532. Howard Dean says:

    Dylan, He’s a troll

  533. rdelbov says:

    Trolling is always a good sign that the GOP is up.

  534. Dylan says:

    Either people are going to decide for themselves who won/lost or we are all toast as a country. The second we start doing what the MSM or whoever tells us we should be doing, this country is done. if we are at that point, so be it–McCain won’t be able to save us or America.

  535. Dylan says:

    #542 Yeah, i know–“dont feed him.” I still would love to hear his analysis why–because the MSM or the “viewer polls” told him so? sheesh

  536. Dylan says:

    Dave W. needs to start a new thread, btw.

  537. KeyBored says:

    DrJay

    I’m not trying to make a big deal about this, I didn’t bring it up, but it does look like McCain said “Horses&t”.

    Watch McCain’s lips on this split screen video:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1rZBmk0DYU

    kb

  538. DrJay says:

    kb… your video proves me right. Thanks. You can see him move his mouth to say “of” right before each instance that you claim he says the profanity. Nice muted sound by the way…I clearly hear the “c” on msnbc.

  539. chuck says:

    But we’re down in all the polls???

    And all the polls say we lost the debate?

    We’re not even ahead in NORTHE CAROLINA!!

    Get going, people. Get the smart Mrs. Palin out there to talk about the threat from Putin in the air.

  540. lisab says:

    they’re here

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5G61YCcBhHU

    i told you the trolls would be back today! 🙂

    once they got their marching orders

  541. lisab says:

    if we stipulate that everything you write is designed to depress republican votes … will you trolls go away? 🙂

  542. KeyBored says:

    DrJay

    Thank goodness. Now I can vote for him 🙂

    kb

  543. DrJay says:

    kb, 🙂

  544. Howard Dean says:

    chuck, You’re an ass too!

    Are you talking about the CNN poll of ADULTS?

    That has a D +14 sample?

    heh

    Obama should be +25 right now.

  545. maelstrom says:

    I hope McCain said horse “manure”. It should be said more often when dealing BS artists like Obama.

  546. jones says:

    Does anyone think Obama sealed the deal with anyone last night?

    The guy is an awful closer, and quite apparently, a clown.

    Ooops, I’m gonna get sued.

  547. lisab says:

    “Hi liasb,

    Sounds like you joined another branch of the military.” Comment by Marv

    lol …

    nope not me … i’m a lover not a fighter …

    i was in the peace corps it is sorta like the air force … without the napalm or air strikes 🙂 and i could have used them on a few occasions

    what i meant was, that most of the men in my family were navy or marines … mostly marines nowadays, though my uncle was a flag officer in the navy.

    trust me on this … you would NOT want me to defend this country with a gun. i am no where tough enough to face down the iranians or russians … the french maybe 🙂

    we all serve our country as best we can … and i was chosen for the peace corps for my absolute honesty, unimpeachable integrity and my extremely high social skills that allow me to get along with people …

    ok … i am still working on that last one 🙂

  548. KeyBored says:

    Jones

    For undecided voters, he may have. All Obama had to do was to look presidential, and I think he did that.

    kb

  549. lisab says:

    for someone from massachusetts … i am considered downright friendly

  550. jones says:

    The Evil Empire lost.

    Gonna be crying in their coke in Miami!

    And the Dork Empire is losing in Ole Miss. A good day so far.

  551. lisab says:

    if mccain actually said horse$&!t to obama …

    i will donate money to his campaign …

    sometimes you just have to get in someone’s face and tell the unadulterated truth

    obama is full of horse$&!t

  552. jones says:

    But it would be a full blooded Arabian- just to clarify.

  553. KeyBored says:

    Lisab

    I think New Englanders get a bad rep for being a little reserved, a little distant. Born and raised in New England, I don’t think this is true, but if anyone cares to differ – they can kiss my a$$.

    kb

  554. lisab says:

    fyi all

    the talking points for the dems are as follows …

    “it was a tie”

    “a tie is a win for obama”

    “by being tied obama was elevated”

    “all the non-specifics in obama’s answers were responsible on his part, because it is easy to be specific, but you have to think of the children and elderly and how a specific change would affect them”

  555. chuck says:

    But check all the tracking polls.

    Are we all still down with Mrs. Palin?

    And can she really see Russia from her house?

  556. Howard Dean says:

    SUSA

    WA state Indy voters on debate:

    Of all debate watchers:
    40% say McCain was the clear winner.
    38% say Obama was the clear winner.
    23% say there was no clear winner.

    But: Independents, the most critical, coveted and arguably most dispassionate group of debate watcher, gave by 4:3 the nod to McCain. Republicans by 6:1 say McCain won. Democrats by 6:1 say Obama won. Those two groups offset.
    Debate watchers say McCain understands Iraq better, McCain understands Iran better, McCain understands Russia better. Debate watchers split on who they trust more on the economy, split on who was more presidential. Overwhelmingly, debate watchers say moderator Jim Lehrer was fair to both candidates

  557. lisab says:

    “I think New Englanders get a bad rep for being a little reserved, a little distant. Born and raised in New England, I don’t think this is true” kb

    i don’t take anything you write as true

    if you said it was sunny outside i would look out the window

    you are a dem troll … which actually is sad for two reasons …

    a.) you intentionally try to disrupt people who honestly want to discuss politics

    b.) you try to depress people’s votes

    i find such a person to be undemocratic, of dubious integrity and of low character.

  558. lisab says:

    is that distant enough for you kb?

  559. chuck says:

    Wow — that SUSA poll in WA must really outweigh CBS, CNN, IA, and MediaServices national polls.

    Did you know that North Koreans are 3 inches shorter than South Koreans? (But McCain doesn’t know the difference between Shiite and Sunni…).

    Hey –weren’t all you guys the big fans of George Bush? How’s that working out for you?

  560. The DNC faxes must really still be going over time hammering Palin. My liberal friend who works for the DNC called me up gleefully mocking her and asking me if I regret McCain picking her. I guess I don’t understand where this is coming from. Personally I think she held her own against Couric, who clearly was out to get her. So, why is there all this noise about the Eagleton scenario again the past couple of days? How does this crap get generated?

  561. Howard Dean says:

    chuck, Go ahead and rely on biased polls.

    My wife is Korean so PHUQ you.

  562. Hey Chuck, weren’t you guys big fans of Democrats. What’s that, their approval rating is 9%, about 3 times lower then the presidents? How’s that working out for you?

  563. rdelbov says:

    Howard

    there was no doubt in my mind that Obami lost. Sure the smackdown was painful and some voters may have thought that McCain was a little rough on BO.

    Yet Obama had no defense for his earmarks, he had no defense for Iran, no defense for Georgia and no defense for Iraq.

    A smackdown is hard to watch and you get a little sympathy for the person knocked off their feet.

    Yet you eventually want the winner and not the loser.

  564. chuck says:

    Don’t we like Bush anymore?

  565. MDefl says:

    I tried to post this from my bberry but it did not take.

    2 Obama people just visited my house. First of all, they were perfectly pleasant and cordial. Second, I decided not to debate them hard because I wanted to hear their pitch. Essentially, it was that Obama would raise taxes back to the rates that existed before Bush if you make more than 250K ( I guess they don’t know that I now make more than that magical amount when my wife’s pt income is factored in). Anyway, I asked the guy if he thought it was a good idea to raise taxes in an economy where we might be headed into a recession. He actually agreed with me!

    In the end, there was no substance. They tried the war but I asked them if Barack’s position was to stage a withdraw? They said it was. I asked how that was different from Macs. They laughed and the guy (there was a lady as well) said, “I won’t hit you with the 100 year statement since it is obvious that you follow this stuff”.

    Still, it is troublesome that their GOTV effort is already strong, at least in Chesco, PA. I have not heard one peep from McCain.

  566. lisab says:

    guys …

    forget the debate polls … i posted the sites the kossians targeted for “freeping” as they call it

    the value of the debate and who won or lost it will be in the ads stemming from the debate

  567. KeyBored says:

    lisab

    I’m here to discuss politics too. I do not want to depress votes, but I would like to make people think, and in so doing reconsider their vote.

    I don’t think there’s anything undemocratic or dubious in presenting another point of view. I try to do so with a little humor and by not attacking anybody.

    As to my character, well, that’s a work in progress. And I really am from New England.

    Oh, It’s sunny here in Florida.

    kb

  568. Phil says:

    I had a couple of questions for Polaris. I see he’s not around and since I’m not interested in listening to key boring and his new friend Chuck, I’ll be back tonight.

  569. MDefl says:

    KB,

    OK – but you don’t add value. Sorry.

  570. Marcus says:

    577 http://www.mediacurves.com/

    Mac lost among Indies.

  571. Jake Towson says:

    The Drudge poll is up to 367,341 voters

    MCCAIN- 68%, 248,622
    OBAMA- 30%, 109,597

    Show me a poll with a bigger sample than that.

  572. BTM says:

    Just watching the Intrade values go up for McCain by 11 points last night tells you all you need to know about who won. That’s called putting your money where your mouth is.

  573. KeyBored says:

    lisab

    I think you took my 564 the wrong way. I was responding to your 559 “for someone from massachusetts … i am considered downright friendly”

    I’ve been in Florida now for about 23 years, and people sometimes tell me that they hear New Englanders are not as friendly as those in the South.

    I wasn’t calling you distant or reserved, but if you took it that way, my apologies.

    kb

  574. Drowsy says:

    America’s largest right wing newspaper?

    The editorial in the UK’s Daily Telegraph clearly listed McCain as the winner in the debate.

    Any editor in the US, save a few cities, would likely have been fired for writing something so positive on the GOP candidate.

  575. lisab says:

    “I’m here to discuss politics too. I do not want to depress votes, but I would like to make people think, and in so doing reconsider their vote…. As to my character, well, that’s a work in progress.” kb

    no sorry, i was born at night but not last night.

    you do not discuss politics,

    you simply spew dem talking points,

    you may at one time have had a few admirable qualities, during your service to the united states … but those days are long since past

    taken as a whole, people are wrong to have a good opinion of you

    if your character is a work in progress, i sincerely hope you reconsider working to disrupt the legitimate discussion of politics by people who simply do not agree with your viewpoint

    however, my experience has been that people of low integrity seldom change

  576. Max Mauritz says:

    kb is a permanent snowbird.

    Are you considered a blue hair or a q-tip when driving your auto?

  577. lisab says:

    “I think you took my 564 the wrong way. I was responding to your 559 “for someone from massachusetts … i am considered downright friendly” …

    I wasn’t calling you distant or reserved, but if you took it that way, my apologies.”

    no … i did not take it the wrong way …

    my honest opinion of you is:

    “i don’t take anything you write as true

    if you said it was sunny outside i would look out the window

    you are a dem troll … which actually is sad for two reasons …

    a.) you intentionally try to disrupt people who honestly want to discuss politics

    b.) you try to depress people’s votes

    i find such a person to be undemocratic, of dubious integrity and of low character.”

    it had nothing to do with your post 564. that is my considered opinion of you

  578. Todd says:

    Mdelf,

    But the fact that they targeted you in bad. Especially if you a registered R.

  579. MDefl says:

    I agree. They think the R’s are soft in Chesco, PA. Many are btw.

  580. lisab says:

    and … that is also why i was a good peace corps volunteer

    i can be brutally honest.

    sometimes people do not like my opinions.

    that is ok

    now i have to go get my hair done … later

  581. Todd says:

    Same thing with me, the Obama people came to my door in Montco—which suggests to me that they are just knocking on random doors. I have been very active in GOP politics in both Centre and Montgomery Counties—especially during the 2004 primary for Sen. Arlen Specter. They should know that I am a diehard R.

  582. KeyBored says:

    Wow. Fully chastised. Well, I never did get along well with my elementary school teachers. I had to clean a lot of erasers.

    kb

  583. rdelbov says:

    LisaB

    you hit the nail on the head. #564 never comments on any of the conservative posts. I hesitate to put myself in the thoughtful catagory, much too humble for that, but many here go to great lengths to post insightful posts.

    Our trolls never comment on those posts. They have their talking points and where they want to direct the conversation to.

    At least, in my opinion, Cory-Tim-ATX actually read our posts and respond to them.

  584. Mad Dog says:

    So we’re all agreed? McCain blew away Obama.

  585. Buckingham says:

    Since nobody disagrees with you, Mad Dog, I guess that settles it: McCain won the debate with Obama hands down.

  586. chuck says:

    Uh oh. More bad debate news, from a Missouri focus group:

    The audience did not like it when he went after Obama for being “naïve” or used his oft-repeated “what Senator Obama doesn’t understand” line. When the two clashed directly in the second half of the debate, with Obama repeatedly protesting McCain’s characterization of his statements or positions, the voter dials went down. Voters appear to have judged McCain too negative in those encounters and Obama more favorably.

  587. Dan says:

    Via Time, which last night ran a focus group of undecided voters in Missouri who viewed the debate:

    The audience did not like it when he went after Obama for being “naïve” or used his oft-repeated “what Senator Obama doesn’t understand” line. When the two clashed directly in the second half of the debate, with Obama repeatedly protesting McCain’s characterization of his statements or positions, the voter dials went down. Voters appear to have judged McCain too negative in those encounters and Obama more favorably.

    So we weren’t the only ones sick of the phrase by evening’s end.

  588. rdelbov says:

    I for one believe that McCain did win hands down.

    The harshness issue has already been addressed. Only democratic voters apparently did not like seeing Obama smacked down.

    I might add that Obama did not shot back and say I have the expirence to lead.

    The best he could trot out was “I have an father from Kenya (Not Kenyon OHIO), but from Africa. I have a great life story so let me lead”

  589. lisab says:

    “i find such a person to be undemocratic, of dubious integrity and of low character. (this has) nothing to do with your post 564. that is my considered opinion of you” lisab

    “Wow. Fully chastised. Well, I never did get along well with my elementary school teachers. I had to clean a lot of erasers.” kb

    you couldn’t handle the erasers

  590. Soupy says:

    Chuck and Dan:

    Live in your dream world, boys (or should I say losers?). All the surveys I’ve seen show McCain the winner hands down.

    As the saying goes, a grip on reality is a terrible thing to lose. Have you guys tried adjusting your meds?

  591. dblaikie says:

    Oh my, go away for a couple of days and look at all the trolls clogging the site. It must mean that they are nervous about something.

    But on a more serious note I am getting tired of all the anti-woman bigots who are showing their colors here. My goodness Joe Biden can talk about how FDR “calmed” the country in 1929 (for the trolls, he wasn’t President in 1929)on televison (no one had a tv)or he can can invite a crippled man to stand-up or he can claim that Hilary would make a better candidate and you bigots don’t say a thing!!! But let Sarah Palin even hesitate on an answer for more than 3 seconds she is unfit. It burns me up. Why don’t you anti-palin bigoted trolls go and suck eggs.

  592. Bitterlaw says:

    503 – KB – You just posted the same writer complaining about Palin and act like it is too different articles because it is posted in 2 different places. Wow. Even I’m not that stupid.